Combined IBIS and OIS

[jaapv]

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Is basically a good thing. But when the lens is unstable handheld at 840mm (150-600 and TC 1411) on a camera that combines IS, in this case the S5, there can be strange effects, In this case a break-dancing wind turbine.  Shutterspeed 650, Electronic shutter - which explains the deformed turbine blades.  The image was a test shot destined for the bin

 

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[Babylonia]

Deformed turbine blades due to the movement of these types of parts within a photo doesn't really surprise me.
But the bended shape of the vertical mast of the windmill that is centrally located. Something that doesn't move at all.  😲

 

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[jaapv]

Indeed, but the OIS element in the lens moved, and the sensor by IBIS Together they produced the bent turbine.

[SrMi]

It seems like a bug in the synchronization of S5 IBIS with Sigma's OIS.

[SrMi]

35 minutes ago, jaapv said:

Indeed, but the OIS element in the lens moved, and the sensor by IBIS Together they produced the bent turbine.

Electronic shutter?

[jaapv]

Yes. Standard setting to avoid high frequency motion blur with long lanses. IS cannot remove shutter slap blur. 

[SrMi]

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3 hours ago, jaapv said:

Yes. Standard setting to avoid high frequency motion blur with long lanses. IS cannot remove shutter slap blur. 

Can't you eliminate the shutter slap blur by using EFCS on S5?

[jaapv]

That impacts bokeh at high shutter speeds   Plus I  think that the present distortion is caused by IS 

[SrMi]

11 hours ago, jaapv said:

That impacts bokeh at high shutter speeds   Plus I  think that the present distortion is caused by IS 

The bokeh can be impacted only when shooting wide open with high shutter speeds (wider than f/1.8?). The Sigma 150-600 is likely unaffected as its widest aperture is f/5. 

The slow readout with an electronic shutter may be the cause, as the IS may not be stable during the long time it takes to read out the sensor (1/20sec?).

[jaapv]

Quite possible. I considered that as well. 

[Pelu2010]

Would that happen with global shutter too? 
 

[FlashGordonPhotography]

The effects of a modern normal shutter are just overblown. The S5II is only 24MP. Here's the 60MP SL3 at 700mm. No issues using the mechanical shutter. I've been testing between 1/100 and 1/8000. This shot @f8 1/1250 ISO 2500 @ 700mm. Sigma 500 plus Leica 1.4x.

Gordon

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Edited April 11 by FlashGordonPhotography

[jaapv]

Nice, but the effect I illustrated would not show up as much in your shot, it not being geometrical,  and is taken with ES.

[FlashGordonPhotography]

9 hours ago, jaapv said:

Nice, but the effect I illustrated would not show up as much in your shot, it not being geometrical,  and is taken with ES.

Yes. Agreed. But my point is 99% of the time using ES is a waste of time as most modern shutters just don't have the micro blur issues that the forums think they do. SO many other things happen before shutter slap or micro blur become an issue in the real world.

High speed read out sensors are the new AF. Now cameras like the SL3 and S5II have decent and improving autofocus some people have decided that they are failures because they don't have fast read sensors, when fast read sensors are almost never needed. It's the new excuse to hate on them.

ES is to 2024 what diffraction was to 2020. Overblown and best ignored 99% of the time. IMHO an excuse to place technical relevance on boring images.

Are you also doing these tests with mechanical shutter to see if ES is even required? I think the Panasonic and Leica shutters are some of the best on the market.

Gordon

[jaapv]

Sorry. In my hands ( and a number of fellow wildlife shooters) the Sigma telezooms are blurry with the mechanical shutter. 
An empirical finding on my part, I have only suppositions as explanation. It appears that Sigma has resolved the issue on their 500. 

[FlashGordonPhotography]

4 hours ago, jaapv said:

Sorry. In my hands ( and a number of fellow wildlife shooters) the Sigma telezooms are blurry with the mechanical shutter. 
An empirical finding on my part, I have only suppositions as explanation. It appears that Sigma has resolved the issue on their 500. 

OK. I'll play. Took these just now. Sigma 150-600 L mount 600mm f8. 1/1250 sec @ISO1000. One is ES and one is MS. Can you tell them apart? I can't at 200% in LR. IBIS on resting on my front balcony rail. We have a breeze today so there's some differences in composition and focus point. Just a test shot and I only took one frame in each mode.

As an aside I sent my 150-600 for a holiday to Sigma and they said nothing is wrong but it came back sharp..... Hmmmm.....

Gordon

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[FlashGordonPhotography]

And a side by side screen shot at 100%. As imported. Default LR settings and no pp or sharpning.

Gordon

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[FlashGordonPhotography]

Same shots different spot.

Gordon

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[jaapv]

Thank you for taking the trouble, but it doesn’t change the way the lens behaves in my (and Michali’s and Triteandtrue’s etc) hands. Read the threads that mention the “softness” of the lens. And the solution we found years ago. 
I don’t quite see what diffraction has to do with it. That is established optics and has been for well over a century. Everybody knows that it occurs and balances it against the image they want to produce. 

I don’t do tests at all; I used the wrong word, I meant try-out shot. This was a casual observation when checking out an extender I just bought. On an S5ii and 150-600, not an SL3 and 500. 

Anyway, that is not what this thread is about. 
When you use it handheld on ES ( for whatever reason) it can produce surprising deformations on static geometric subjects - not leaves, you would not notice it easily on organic forms. 
 

My guess is that rapid shifts of the stabilization can produce motion deformation due to the slow readout of the ES. 

Maybe you could comment on that? 

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[FlashGordonPhotography]

To your original post, yes that looks like an IBIS jump during exposure. I agree with your assessment.

I'm going to pull out my S5II and see if I can replicate your issue. Being able to get away from the ES would solve the above issue. Now I'm intrigued to see if it's like that on my S5II and 150-600.

Gordon