SL3 Rumored Price

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[tom0511]

vor 10 Stunden schrieb JohnSantaF4:

I'm just wondering what everyone thinks would be a reasonable SL3 price, given incremental improvements, inflation, and economies of scale in manufacturing, etc.

I believe around 6000 Euro would be reasonable, but I am afraid it will be priced somewhat higher.

For me personally - we have to see what advantages it has over the SL2/ SL2-S. Is the C-AF that much improved, that I could sell my Canon and just use the SL3 for sports as well? (I kind of doubt it). Will the high ISO IQ be as good as SL2-S (or even better)?

What I would really like is a 36 MP SL3-S  with AF close to or as good as Canikon-sports cams.

 

[SJH]

13 hours ago, Al Brown said:

We will know the 100% correct exact amount at launch and will be able to reverse engineer the math with all the variables (the labor cost, worker's wages, cost of cleaning the Wetzlar premises including floors, windows, toilets, taking out the trash, proper disposing of batteries, biohazard waste etc. after work, economies and scale of manufacturing, fees for importing parts from China, marketing expenditure, royalties for L-Mount Alliance and how all of the above is affecing profit margins to ponder on the rationality of the price.

But if you ask me today, same price as SL2 would be so cool.
 

I agree and personally though I believe it's going to come in at about £200/$300 more than the current SL2 pricing, I don't think even Leica think it can take a bigger increase given the Sony A9III. Z8/9 and shortly the R1.

[SrMi]

4 hours ago, Planetwide said:

11 hours ago, SrMi said:

 

I didn't skip anything in the reference that I used. But, just in case, here's the one that I used: https://cameradecision.com/compare/Leica-SL2-vs-Canon-EOS-R5

That is not an unreliable and superficial source by my experience.

[BernardC]

6 hours ago, Planetwide said:

I didn't skip anything in the reference that I used. But, just in case, here's the one that I used: https://cameradecision.com/compare/Leica-SL2-vs-Canon-EOS-R5

Fair enough, but that kind of check-mark comparison is rarely useful. It's like young boys comparing their parents' cars by the metric of top speed. I did that with my friends, I'm sure we weren't the only ones.

So the camera that goes to ISO 51,000 is 2% better than the one that goes to ISO 50,000? The camera that has a tick for "8K" is better than the one that can do high-quality 5K all day without overheating? Don't forget that Canon had to release a separate R5c model, with a huge cooling backpack, to get the 8K to work for more than a few minutes.

[Planetwide]

1 hour ago, BernardC said:

Fair enough, but that kind of check-mark comparison is rarely useful. It's like young boys comparing their parents' cars by the metric of top speed. I did that with my friends, I'm sure we weren't the only ones.

So the camera that goes to ISO 51,000 is 2% better than the one that goes to ISO 50,000? The camera that has a tick for "8K" is better than the one that can do high-quality 5K all day without overheating? Don't forget that Canon had to release a separate R5c model, with a huge cooling backpack, to get the 8K to work for more than a few minutes.

Since I own both camera's, I can tell you that most of the differences are true. The SL2, is predominantly a stills camera, with essentially useless AF for video, tracking etc... But as I said in my follow on post, it doesnt' really matter, as it is only about user preference. Leica has chosen a certain ethos (minimalism) vs say Canon/Panasonic etc... IF the camera works for you, then it's what you should buy. I own the SL2, predominantly for non of the reasons that I listed. Do I wish that it had some or all of those points, frankly yes, but I like camera's with buttons vs menu's - again a personal choice. The SL2 does slow me down, and add an M lens, and I enjoy a slower manual experience. I add an APO prime, and it's an amazing image. 

For my commercial work, it's all Canon. Faster, when I need it. Better integration with TS lenses when I need it, better video when I need it. And amazing zooms when I need it. 

Obviously your use case might be different. But we live in an age of very capable camera's from all manufacturer's and each one has its particular advantages.

[SrMi]

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21 minutes ago, Planetwide said:

Since I own both camera's, I can tell you that most of the differences are true.

I have/had both cameras but recently sold the R5 and all Canon lenses. The list of differences is true but far from complete. You are also missing some relevant features of Canon. A spec list is not sufficient to describe the differences.

[Jipster]

On 2/6/2024 at 6:34 AM, Simone_DF said:

I reckon cost of labor in Japan is expensive (Sigma, Voigtlander), and cost of labor in Portugal is cheaper (Leica). 
Leica support is the industry’s joke. It takes months to get a repair. Don’t know about Sony, but Canon’s service is top notch and fast. 

Does Canon repair 50 years old lenses and bodies? I don't think you quite get what it takes to support for years bodies and lenses. The time it takes is simply a question of size. Which of course is also a reason for costs. But hey keep believing that Leica overcharge. No skin off my back.

[Simone_DF]

57 minutes ago, Jipster said:

But hey keep believing that Leica overcharge.

Yup. I honestly believe Leica camera and lenses are way overpriced, even though I own a SL2-S and a bunch of Leica lenses. 

[jaapv]

The last percent of quality is always a magnitude more  expensive. You are not only paying for the lens, although it being handmade in an expensive country does not make it cheap to build, you are also paying for Leica not applying cost restraints to optical glass and for precision machining of the mechanical mount to the narrowest possible tolerances. And not to forget: a lens design archive containing the work of some of the most brilliant optical engineers ever, dating back 175 years. As for cameras, Leica prices reflect a small series premium. 

[Simone_DF]

7 minutes ago, jaapv said:

As for cameras, Leica prices reflect a small series premium. 

Yes, but a good chunk of the premium price is more related to Leica’s position as a luxury/lifestyle brand. 

[jaapv]

If that were true, their balance sheet would show excessive profits. They are doing well, in fact better than ever, but nothing crazy.

[BernardC]

On 2/6/2024 at 6:34 AM, Simone_DF said:

Don’t know about Sony, but Canon’s service is top notch and fast.

Canon Professional Services (CPS) is indeed quite good, but it's an extra-cost service. You need to own a minimum number of their current professional bodies and lenses to qualify. If you don't qualify/pay for CPS, you'll be in the same boat as everybody else. A local pro had a 1Dx with them for months, because she didn't own enough L lenses to jump the queue. I think she ended-up buying a new body and selling the repaired body when it finally came back.

Sony's US repair services were a source of complaints on the old LensRentals blog, I don't know if that's been resolved, or what the situation is in other markets. At the time, the blog claimed that it wasn't worth it for them to send stuff to Sony, but keep in mind that they could do some sophisticated repairs in-house.

There was a lot of talk a few years ago about Nikon shutting-out all independent repair services in the US.

Hasselblad closed their New Jersey repair facility last year, which is unfortunate because they were excellent.

[gotium]

33 minutes ago, jaapv said:

If that were true, their balance sheet would show excessive profits. They are doing well, in fact better than ever, but nothing crazy.

Do you have a source?

[jaapv]

I can all be found on the Internet.

[gotium]

31 minutes ago, jaapv said:

I can all be found on the Internet.

Do you know of any *reliable* sources? If they are not publicly traded they presumably have no reporting requirements. 

[jaapv]

You can find plenty of reliable sources on the internet. Even if Leica is not traded, they do release press statements vv

[gotium]

8 minutes ago, jaapv said:

You can find plenty of reliable sources on the internet. Even if Leica is not traded, they do release press statements vv

I've found some that report revenue and revenue per employee, but the same sources report, for example, that Nikon only has 45 employees (they must be very busy). I don't trust my own sleuthing. 

[Richardgb]

23 hours ago, tomasis7 said:

If you look closely at how Leica cameras are designed whether M, SL, Q, CL, S whatever, it is a very minimalistic layout. It is what I was looking for. If you compare with cars, I want ONLY rear-driven wheels, manual transmission, and N/A engine. I have such a car already. 

As a photographer, I need ONLY the aperture, shutter, click button, focus tab. Four things to take a photo. That comes from my background as a Film M body user. 

How do I use SL? I ditch AF and use M lenses. I use SL as M body and it works very well. I could focus on taking photos by using the four things (see above).

Of course, I want a simple camera. What else?

 

Well, I had all that on my nth-hand Zeiss Ikon Nettar, built in the 1950s, and it was a lot lighter and more compact (when folded) than a full-frame mirrorless camera of today.

Equally, if I so chose, I could used my Lumix S1 in manual mode (focusing included).

By the way, you forgot your light meter.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[gbpost]

vor 34 Minuten schrieb jaapv:

You can find plenty of reliable sources on the internet. Even if Leica is not traded, they do release press statements vv

They publish their annual reports in the Bundesanzeiger. However they are in German language.

Bundesanzeiger is here: https://www.bundesanzeiger.de/pub/en/search?0

Search for "Leica Camera AG"