35mm and 90mm lenses with similar performance & rendering to 50mm Summicron v5?

[Jon Warwick]

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For use on my M11, I have super sharp lenses such as the APO Lanthars, but I'm finding that the rendering of my 50mm v5 makes it one of my most frequently used lenses.

I like the 50mm v5 because it still records a huge amount of fine detail at f5.6, but it does so in a slightly gentler and more classic way than the modern APOs.

In other words, to my eyes, the 50mm v5 has very well controlled performance but with a less modern rendering.

I'm thinking of building out 35mm and 90mm focal lengths that most closely match the "look" of the 50mm v5. Please note that I'm much more interesting in finding lenses that match the v5's gentler character at f5.6, rather than wide open, so please keep that in mind!

So far, I've tried ....

- M 35mm Summicron v4 (King of Bokeh), but it seemed a step-back in resolution and performance from the 50mm v5, albeit it had loads of character;

- M 90mm Elmarit with the pull-out hood that was discontinued in c 2008. It seems not quite as good in performance as 50mm v5, but not far off either and with a gentle filmic look.

Any thoughts on what lenses might work? ....35mm Summilux Reissue? 35mm Summicron ASPH v1? Bit out my depth here on what's appropriate, so any help appreciated.

Edited January 28 by Jon Warwick

[jaapv]

Look at the Voigtländer range.  Lenses like the Heliars and Noktons have a more vintage character. 

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[Alberti]

It is said the Cron 50mm v5 has a modern 'look'. I would expect the Summarits would be a great companion, albeit at a smaller opening. They all seem to have some 'Karbe' signature: sharp, aperture is only needed for DOF/composition, like the v5.

I have the version 5 and find that my Macro-Elmar 90mm is a great match in character and specifically, how the plane of sharpness is. I would not call it 'vintage'.

As to the 35mm, I have both the Summicron v1 and V4. I agree to your remarks about the V4 (& it is very sharp up from F5.6); the v1 however is a great performer from 2.8 already and certainly on the Monochrom1 shines like no other lens. 35-Cron v1 does have a slightly older look to it, in the sense that the sharpness does not delineate like mad; but it does exhibit coma (which the 50/v5 is exempt of).

I have 35mmV1 shots where the DOF at F2 is just several cm as seen on this picture with the M10-R:

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[shirubadanieru]

I’ve tried all 35mm lenses that Leica has,  if you just care about the rendering at f5.6 to be honest I wouldn’t be able to tell any of them apart and you might be better off with a cheaper voigtlander lens (like the 35mm ultron f2 or Nokton f1.4 II). 

At f5.6 all Summicrons and summiluxes from all generations look the same to me. If you want a similar rendering wide open, I do think the 50mm v5 has a bit of pop that the 35mm pre-asph lack when shot wide open, but if you shoot them at f2.8 I would say that especially the summicron v1, v4, and summilux 35mm pre-asph (Germany / titanium) do have a very nice pop and still retain a very beautiful bokeh. 

If you want pop wide open, then I think the summilux 35mm f1.4 asph is your best choice…that being said, again I feel that at f5.6 I wouldn’t be able to tell it apart from any other lens.

For 90mm I am not sure as I find it hard to focus / frame with anything longer than 50mm on a rangefinder. But I did try the tele-Elmar it 90mm f2.8, and it had a lovely rendering and was also very small and light.

Edited January 28 by shirubadanieru

[dpitt]

22 minutes ago, Alberti said:

It is said the Cron 50mm v5 has a modern 'look'. I would expect the Summarits would be a great companion, albeit at a smaller opening. They all seem to have some 'Karbe' signature: sharp, aperture is only needed for DOF/composition, like the v5.

I have the version 5 and find that my Macro-Elmar 90mm is a great match in character and specifically, how the plane of sharpness is. I would not call it 'vintage'.

As to the 35mm, I have both the Summicron v1 and V4. I agree to your remarks about the V4 (& it is very sharp up from F5.6); the v1 however is a great performer from 2.8 already and certainly on the Monochrom1 shines like no other lens. 35-Cron v1 does have a slightly older look to it, in the sense that the sharpness does not delineate like mad; but it does exhibit coma (which the 50/v5 is exempt of).

I have 35mmV1 shots where the DOF at F2 is just several cm as seen on this picture with the M10-R:

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+1 for the Macro Elmar 90
It is a bit more modern IMO than the Summicron v5, but very close. On top of that it is very light and compact too.

Maybe a bit controversial, but I also like the Tele-Elmarit 90 F2.8 thin version. Also very compact and light. It was my favorite until I found the Macro Elmar 90. For portraits, I still like it more. Plenty of sharpness and yet forgiving. For my eyes it has a bit older look than the Summicron v5, but not as old as my 35 Summicron v3. (which should be fairly close to the v4) If you do not mind occasional flare issues, it can be a great little lens.

The Summarit 90 looks a bit too modern to me, also a more reddish rendering.

I only like the 35 Summilux pre-ASPH when it is stopped down. My preference for the 35mm would be the 35 Summicron ASPH. I did not test this one myself, but I did like my 28mm Elmarit ASPH from the same period. A bit more modern, but not really outspoken modern like the Summarit 35...

The Summicron 50  v5 sits in between the Tele-Elmarit 90 and the 28 mm Elmarit ASPH, but they are quite close, certainly when stopped down.

 

[hansvons]

The V5/V4 50mm Summicron is probably the quintessence of the classic Leica 50. The same can be said about the V5/ASPH Summicron, as it's the latest breed of the film era 35mm Summicrons like the V5 50mm Summicron. I have both and find them quite similar in rendering if such a thing exists for different focal lengths. 

The 35mm Summicon ASPH is not "clinical" or soul-less. It flares, shows a bent focal plane wide open and keeps that unique flatness of its predecessors, which I find flattering in portraits. The highlights even glow a bit at f 2.0. The biggest difference to the V4 35mm Summciron is the higher sharpness in f2.0-f2.8 and the lack of smeary corners at a medium distance at full aperture. Both lenses breathe the ideals of the 90ies, which was the pinnacle of film photography and is already vintage today.

[Stuart Richardson]

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Let me be a bit cheeky and say that the longer lens you want is actually the 75mm Summilux, not a 90mm. That is a lens that is a true Mandler classic. Soft and glowy at 1.4-2, but getting increasingly sharp from 2.5-5.6, at which point it is nearly indistinguishable from a lens like the 75mm APO M. I have had mine for more than twenty years (back when you could get a used one for 1500 dollars...sadly those days are over), and it is still one of the last lenses I would ever get rid of.

As for a 35mm, I had always paired my 35mm Summilux ASPH with the summicron and I think it is superb. Another lens that is soft wide open compared to the newer APOs, but it has tremendous atmosphere and when stopped down is still good enough to use for higher resolution work as needed.