Which RAW-Converter for Leica S

[tom0511]

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I wondered which RAW-Converter you guys use for your S. It would be usefull to also say which S-boy you use.

I use mainly LR Classic for my S007.

[Hans-Dieter Gülicher]

I use ACR/Photoshop since 2005 (M9+DMR). In March 2020 I got my S3. As usual ACR functioned well with my Q2, M 10-R and S3. See my pictures in this Forum.

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[irenedp]

I use ACR +Photoshop. 

[Pieter12]

Capture One 22.

[helged]

Lightroom with Cobalt profiles.

In case of troublesome highlights and/or deep shadows, I always apply the Cobalt linear profile, named Cobalt Repro, followed by some 'agressive' adjustments in LR. I usually - almost always - detour to Photoshop for final tweaks of the colours. 

Once I have some days with 'spare' time, I will play with Capture One. I used C1 back in the days, but strongly disliked the C1 file structuring. Over the years, I have learned to use LR and, to some degree, PS, and is sort of happy with the post processing. 

[Ravi K]

Hi all, Great to see some of the comments above. First time posting here. I got an S-E (Typ 006) a couple of months back along with the 35mm and 70mm lenses. Have been mostly using Nikon (D50 earlier and then D750) along with Fuji S5. Overall happy with the Leica S system for now. I liked the colors out of the Fuji more and hence the move to the S-E. I am a casual photographer who use my cameras for family pics, vacations, etc.

I was using Apple Aperture until a couple of years back when I switched to Apple Photos on a Mac. I have been shooting DNG and using Apple Photos to process the Leica S-E files. Am I missing much by not using Lightroom or Capture One? Has anyone here used Apple Photos for a comparison? In addition to the investment (upfront or monthly subscription) a concern is transferring the existing catalog to the new system, and learning the new software. So any inputs are appreciated!

[Stuart Richardson]

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I use Lightroom almost exclusively. I used the embedded profile or custom profiles for the S006 for the most part, but Adobe Standard was also quite good for that camera. Have never liked Adobe Color with any camera, so I avoid that. With the S3 I particularly disliked Adobe Color, and Cobalt profiles really rescued the color for me in Lightroom.

I think Capture One is appealing in some ways, but I cannot use it...same reason as Helge. Right now I have over 100,000 images in my lightroom catalog, mostly my own, but also those of hundreds of clients. Organizing that with Capture One would not be something I would like to undertake. I also find that there are so many useful features in lightroom in addition to the raw processing. For example, I use the printing engine to run my printing business, and I have found no advantage to using a third party RIP. I also find the collection system and various view options (grid, comparison, whatever it is called when you hit "n" and it will show you just your selected photos) very useful for editing and previewing sequences for exhibitions or books/magazines. I really wish I could just buy it and photoshop alone with a perpetual license and be free of all the other adobe bloatware, but there is no real alternative for me and my business. At least not without a large learning curve and massive effort in migrating. Which is exactly what Adobe is counting on...

As for Apple Photos, I cannot say. Honestly a bit surprised that it is usable with the Leica DNG's at all...both Lightroom and Capture One are far more capable programs, but if you are happy with what you are getting and a casual photographer, I would say just stick with it. The more effort you put into perfectionism in processing, the less it tends to feel like an enjoyable pastime and the more like a job. The grass is always greener etc...if you start to feel unhappy with what you get, then the easiest recommendation would be to get the Adobe Photography Plan, which is still fairly cheap and gives you lightroom classic and Photoshop. Be aware that when people are talking about Lightroom here they are almost always talking about Lightroom Classic, not "Lightroom". Adobe switched the names a few years ago to try to sell more cloud storage. Basically Lightroom Classic is the full featured program, and Lightroom is all on the cloud, so it has fewer features and is basically to confuse people into buying storage (perhaps not a generous take, but I stand by it).

 

[Pieter12]

ever mind

Edited January 3 by Pieter12

[steve.chang]

I am using Lightroom for S 006 images. I never liked LR before for any of my Leicas, but I feel now it improves a lot. 
 

I like to stay with the standard Adobe profile, but:

1. Tweak tone curve “slightly” by only 2 control points at the lower and upper range but differently based on the scenes. I try not to “overly” flatten the color information in the histograms. 

2. Adjust saturation/luminance by colors. I do “not” adjust the hue, since I like my S 006 color signature.

3. Remember the beautiful colors from my M9 CCD. 

 

Cheers,

Steve

 

[irenedp]

12 hours ago, Stuart Richardson said:

I use Lightroom almost exclusively. I used the embedded profile or custom profiles for the S006 for the most part, but Adobe Standard was also quite good for that camera. Have never liked Adobe Color with any camera, so I avoid that. With the S3 I particularly disliked Adobe Color, and Cobalt profiles really rescued the color for me in Lightroom.

I think Capture One is appealing in some ways, but I cannot use it...same reason as Helge. Right now I have over 100,000 images in my lightroom catalog, mostly my own, but also those of hundreds of clients. Organizing that with Capture One would not be something I would like to undertake. I also find that there are so many useful features in lightroom in addition to the raw processing. For example, I use the printing engine to run my printing business, and I have found no advantage to using a third party RIP. I also find the collection system and various view options (grid, comparison, whatever it is called when you hit "n" and it will show you just your selected photos) very useful for editing and previewing sequences for exhibitions or books/magazines. I really wish I could just buy it and photoshop alone with a perpetual license and be free of all the other adobe bloatware, but there is no real alternative for me and my business. At least not without a large learning curve and massive effort in migrating. Which is exactly what Adobe is counting on...

As for Apple Photos, I cannot say. Honestly a bit surprised that it is usable with the Leica DNG's at all...both Lightroom and Capture One are far more capable programs, but if you are happy with what you are getting and a casual photographer, I would say just stick with it. The more effort you put into perfectionism in processing, the less it tends to feel like an enjoyable pastime and the more like a job. The grass is always greener etc...if you start to feel unhappy with what you get, then the easiest recommendation would be to get the Adobe Photography Plan, which is still fairly cheap and gives you lightroom classic and Photoshop. Be aware that when people are talking about Lightroom here they are almost always talking about Lightroom Classic, not "Lightroom". Adobe switched the names a few years ago to try to sell more cloud storage. Basically Lightroom Classic is the full featured program, and Lightroom is all on the cloud, so it has fewer features and is basically to confuse people into buying storage (perhaps not a generous take, but I stand by it).

 

Stuart, I have never used Cobalt profiles, but whilst I am quite happy with Adobe color as a starting point  for the S2 -I start in Lightroom, but do most in Photoshop including any color adjustment-, I am not satisfied with it regarding the S3, and have a similar problem with the M10r vs the M9 (work with them usually in pairs). I looked up Cobalt and found profiles for the S2 and S007, but none for the S3. Are you using the S007 one? 

[Stuart Richardson]

2 hours ago, irenedp said:

Stuart, I have never used Cobalt profiles, but whilst I am quite happy with Adobe color as a starting point  for the S2 -I start in Lightroom, but do most in Photoshop including any color adjustment-, I am not satisfied with it regarding the S3, and have a similar problem with the M10r vs the M9 (work with them usually in pairs). I looked up Cobalt and found profiles for the S2 and S007, but none for the S3. Are you using the S007 one? 

Hi Irene,

I used the Cobalt profile for the S3. If they do not have it on the site, please contact them, as they did make one. I was in touch with them at the time though, so perhaps they do not have it on the site for some reason? There are not many S3's, after all...

Best,

Stuart

 

[irenedp]

2 hours ago, Stuart Richardson said:

Hi Irene,

I used the Cobalt profile for the S3. If they do not have it on the site, please contact them, as they did make one. I was in touch with them at the time though, so perhaps they do not have it on the site for some reason? There are not many S3's, after all...

Best,

Stuart

 

Yes, they are quite a rarity. I will contact them. Thank you very much! 

Best wishes 

Irene

[Ravi K]

19 hours ago, Stuart Richardson said:

I use Lightroom almost exclusively. I used the embedded profile or custom profiles for the S006 for the most part, but Adobe Standard was also quite good for that camera. Have never liked Adobe Color with any camera, so I avoid that. With the S3 I particularly disliked Adobe Color, and Cobalt profiles really rescued the color for me in Lightroom.

I think Capture One is appealing in some ways, but I cannot use it...same reason as Helge. Right now I have over 100,000 images in my lightroom catalog, mostly my own, but also those of hundreds of clients. Organizing that with Capture One would not be something I would like to undertake. I also find that there are so many useful features in lightroom in addition to the raw processing. For example, I use the printing engine to run my printing business, and I have found no advantage to using a third party RIP. I also find the collection system and various view options (grid, comparison, whatever it is called when you hit "n" and it will show you just your selected photos) very useful for editing and previewing sequences for exhibitions or books/magazines. I really wish I could just buy it and photoshop alone with a perpetual license and be free of all the other adobe bloatware, but there is no real alternative for me and my business. At least not without a large learning curve and massive effort in migrating. Which is exactly what Adobe is counting on...

As for Apple Photos, I cannot say. Honestly a bit surprised that it is usable with the Leica DNG's at all...both Lightroom and Capture One are far more capable programs, but if you are happy with what you are getting and a casual photographer, I would say just stick with it. The more effort you put into perfectionism in processing, the less it tends to feel like an enjoyable pastime and the more like a job. The grass is always greener etc...if you start to feel unhappy with what you get, then the easiest recommendation would be to get the Adobe Photography Plan, which is still fairly cheap and gives you lightroom classic and Photoshop. Be aware that when people are talking about Lightroom here they are almost always talking about Lightroom Classic, not "Lightroom". Adobe switched the names a few years ago to try to sell more cloud storage. Basically Lightroom Classic is the full featured program, and Lightroom is all on the cloud, so it has fewer features and is basically to confuse people into buying storage (perhaps not a generous take, but I stand by it).

 

Hi @Stuart RichardsonThanks for the detailed reply. Color is another concern I had with any RAW converter. But looks like you were happy with Adobe for S006 without using Cobalt. Good point you made about pasttime vs. job - I would like to keep it as an enjoyable pasttime! Thanks for clarifying about Lightroom Classic vs. Lightroom. Maybe I'll try a trial download of Lightroom and see if it is significantly better than Apple Photos.

Apple Photos does have quite a bit of controls. What I found lacking was the amount (number of stops) of adjustment you could do to highlights and shadows. Many landscape photos with sky and people end up with not enough details in one or the other. I know, ideally you should use flash or bracket+merge.

Hi @steve.changThanks for the reply and suggestion on tone curve and color adjustment. I have heard the M9 CCD colors are 'famous'. I thought the S006 is supposed to have a very similar sensor?

[Guest]

One way or another, my image files end up in a Lightroom catalog. They get tagged and keyworded there, and often also developed (via a trip thru PS). It's just such a convenient file management tool. The Cobalt Repro profile is quite special, but in LR, it's easy to make one's own presets and camera-specific recipes. Lens-specific profiles, that's a different story. That's where DXO often comes in, at least when I feel the need for serious perspective control and such. One other editor I want to mention is Color Projects 6 Pro, which has a plethora of build-in options and optimizations, some of them very technical, some of them a bit "out there".

[steve.chang]

6 hours ago, Ravi K said:

Hi @steve.changThanks for the reply and suggestion on tone curve and color adjustment. I have heard the M9 CCD colors are 'famous'. I thought the S006 is supposed to have a very similar sensor?

Supposedly, both cameras use the same CCD architecture, but the colors they produce are quite different.

Based on my not-so-scientific observations, the M9 CCD exhibits vibrant greens and unique shades of magenta and cyan in its images. In contrast, the S 006's colors are more muted, yet its files are more malleable in Lightroom. That's why I found tweeting the luminance of colors actually recovers the highlight when we already run out of the slider of highlight recovery. The skin tones from the S 006 are better and more pleasing.  

Happy photographing, @Ravi K! 

[414concrete]

Interesting. I can’t stand LR colors. For years and years I’ve tried to like them. Custom profiles etc, but I never have. Capture One is the gold standard for me however I do like sometimes using the Leica app and photos for small projects. 

[davidmknoble]

Capture one just provides me the best way to tune color and the image without ‘over processing’ and keeping it looking real. 
 

both S007 and S3

Edited January 6 by davidmknoble
Camera body

[Stuart Richardson]

On 1/5/2024 at 12:43 AM, steve.chang said:

Supposedly, both cameras use the same CCD architecture, but the colors they produce are quite different.

Based on my not-so-scientific observations, the M9 CCD exhibits vibrant greens and unique shades of magenta and cyan in its images. In contrast, the S 006's colors are more muted, yet its files are more malleable in Lightroom. That's why I found tweeting the luminance of colors actually recovers the highlight when we already run out of the slider of highlight recovery. The skin tones from the S 006 are better and more pleasing.  

Happy photographing, @Ravi K! 

This tracks with my feeling...I think most of these feelings are very general and also change quite a bit in relation to when/where you photograph. The light is very different here in Iceland than it is closer to the equator, for example. In my experience both the M9 and S006 had fantastic colors, but the M9 had a more contrast-y saturated look, where the S006 was more natural. I still think its files are the most natural and pleasing to me straight out of camera of any camera I have owned. Part of that is the dynamic range...having a huge dynamic range is helpful for processing, but not necessarily for a final photo. Look at slides...there is still nothing that comes close to a well exposed and well processed slide on a light table, and they have only 5-8 stops. But here is the kicker: the human eye has about 7 stops of dynamic range without the iris moving. So when we look into a shadow it opens up, and when we look in the light it closes, but at any given instant you only get about 7 stops. I think this is one of the reasons why slide film looks so convincing and real, as it is an instant of time with a dynamic range similar to what our eyes perceive in an instant. There is a subconscious feeling of it being natural. It is the same with the CCD cameras straight out of camera. They don't have such a large dynamic range so if you expose correctly they can come out looking really spot on. It is also why HDR tends to look so fake...this is simply not how our eyes see. The newer cameras with high dynamic range (and negative films) allow for a lot of processing leeway to pull detail from the highlights and shadows, but if you use all of those stops on a final photo they often tend to look a bit unnatural. Sometimes that is fine though...the low contrast/high dynamic range look in color negative is basically its own entire genre in contemporary photography...and of course deciding which stops to use and which to clip is the art of processing...manipulating the information you get into what you want to show...the final result will be dependent on how well you use the information the camera captures.

Edited January 6 by Stuart Richardson

[GMB]

LR Classic with embedded profile.  A couple of years ago, I downloaded the presets from David Farkas and now use them as a starting point for my edits.  

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Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[Pieter12]

As I posted earlier, I use Capture One for initial processing of raw files from both my Leica S 006m S3 and a Leaf AFi ii 7 digital back. I have been quite pleased with the results, though the S3 files seem a little crunchier, lacking shadow detail without some adjustments.

But for retouching and more tweaking, I go to Photoshop. It is a program I have been using pretty much since its inception and I am fairly comfortable with it. I also use Adobe Bridge (free!) to organize my files. I can open files from Bridge in pretty much any program by drag and drop. A while ago I used Photo Mechanic for initial sorting and arranging, but I really don't make that many exposures per shoot to warrant having another program to bother with.