The M10-R is the last digital Leica I expect I'll ever buy

[w44neg]

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It's just THAT good. 

A few years ago, I purchased an M10-R. They were starting to de-value a little after a few months, and I couldn't justify the loss, especially with how business was at the time. I lived without a Leica for a long time following this, going through various Mirrorless systems, until I recently visited the Leica Factory.

I'd said to myself, "if they have an M10-R for sale, I'm buying it". Sure enough, I bought an M10-R within about an hour of being there lol. The moment I started shooting with it, I was transported back to the camera I'd sold so reluctantly. The shutter, the heft, the ISO dial that pops up, and of course the software lock-ups 😆

I've shot a lot of frames since picking it up in October, and I now can't believe I lived without one for so long. I've never been happier shooting images than I am right now.

I have a few lenses, but my favourite will always be the 35 FLE 2010. I love how it renders.

Anyway, rant over. I have a few friends with M11/M11-P's and they're trying to tempt me, but I'm happy, and this cost me a lot less than having the "latest and greatest". They tell me it's great that is USB-charges, but I'd miss that bottom-plate removal, and the battery life is exceptional anyhow.

Some recent shots...

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Edited December 20, 2023 by w44neg

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[jakontil]

I could feel how you feel about the M10r and trying to deny the greatness of the battery life of M11 and honestly speaking in practical matter probably gives the best experience on field, i still have both but in almost definitive term, god forbids, i love my M10R bp in the utmost level ✌️ 

taken with M10r and 35 lux SR 

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[w44neg]

Thanks for the reply. I’m sure the M11 has its pros, but I’ve just bought an M3 pro MacBook and even that isn’t perfect with the M10R files, so it would be even less suitable for M11. 
 

The 10 r is a really good sweet spot. 

[charlesphoto99]

4 hours ago, w44neg said:

 I’ve just bought an M3 pro MacBook and even that isn’t perfect with the M10R files, so it would be even less suitable for M11. 
 

Did you buy one with enough RAM? I made that mistake with a mini M1 when it came out. The extra CPU power really helps only a bit, but RAM a lot. 64GB RAM is the minimum you want for working with programs like Lightroom (ok, 32 would probably suffice depending on what else you might be running). I ended up with a 16" M1 MBP and 64GB of RAM and couldn't be happier. 

[w44neg]

1 minute ago, charlesphoto99 said:

Did you buy one with enough RAM? I made that mistake with a mini M1 when it came out. The extra CPU power really helps only a bit, but RAM a lot. 64GB RAM is the minimum you want for working with programs like Lightroom (ok, 32 would probably suffice depending on what else you might be running). I ended up with a 16" M1 MBP and 64GB of RAM and couldn't be happier. 

Hi yeah this is the issue, but even so, the “jump” from m1 to m3 is minuscule. They reached a turning point a couple of years ago and now it looks like they can’t really go further without another big advancement. 

[costa43]

I really hope it will not be the last digital Leica M I buy as that would mean Leica release nothing to perk my very perkable interest in the future, or that I cop it. Neither an appealing option! That being said, it doesn’t really have any glaring issues and the two minor niggles are it’s slowish wake time and it’s battery. Both workable for me.

On the subject of editing hardware, I own an m1 8gb iPad Pro and it’s absolutely fine with m10r files on the whole bar the odd tiny delay which is a non issue. My desktop pc is slow and in need of an upgrade. I think an M1 mac mini with 16gb ram should be fine as a starting point. 

[Rick in CO]

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I use a 2017 iMac which I've upgraded to 40GB of Ram - it runs my M10R files without any issue in Photoshop or Lightroom. 

Perhaps enough RAM is the issue.

[w44neg]

Thanks for the advice on the Macs. What I was trying to say was more the M3 is barely any jump from the M1 Pro. They’ve reached a point where it’s hard to jump further with current tech. 
 

It’s not slow of course, but there’s certain Lightroom commands they just don’t like due to RAM requirements and the 18GB not being enough on mine. However you’re talking an extra £400-1000GBP to increase!

[TomB_tx]

I reached the "Last Leica I'll buy" point with the original M10. Still happy with that decision.

[RexGig0]

1 hour ago, TomB_tx said:

I reached the "Last Leica I'll buy" point with the original M10. Still happy with that decision.

I am having little trouble remaining with the M10 as my “peak” digital M camera, partnered with the M Type 246 Monochrom for B&W shooting. The quieter shutter of the M10-P has been a feature that has occasionally tempted me, but that has decreased in its seeming importance, with the passing of time. An original M10 Is amazingly quiet.

The M10 Monochrom’s ability to shoot in really low light, at very high ISO, has been a tempting technical feature, but then, I decided to add some “faster” Voigtlander Nokton lenses, and a faster short telephoto, the APO Summicron 75mm ASPH, to “level-up” the playing field, for the 246. Of course, the faster glass pairs well with the M10, too.

I have not been totally ignoring the M10-R. Perhaps, if I have an opportunity to test-shoot with an M10-R, perhaps during a visit to a large Leica Store, I might learn something significant. I do not feel a need for the mega-pixels, but I might learn something about the M10-R’s colors, which, coupled with the quieter shutter, and/or some other as-yet-unknown factor, may affect the equation. (I may well have to work/play with image files, before knowing how I feel about the M10-R. Sitting with a computer is not one of my favored ways to pass the time.)

M11? Well, right away, the M10-series’ quieter shutter is lost. The M11 “lost” me, right there; no need to go further. 

Edited December 21, 2023 by RexGig0

[Eoin]

For me, the M10's ergonomics and operation was the point where Leica got it (almost) right. I've had mine since 2017 and loved every moment with it.

I wanted to add a 2nd body and after the M11-P release, I decided to stick with the M10 platform and take advantage of the extra resolution the M10-R would offer. I was absolutely content with perhaps the most perfect digital M I've ever used.

A couple of months later I happened upon a bargain M11-M, I'd been toying with the idea of Monochrome and here I had a choice and I opted for the higher resolution of the M11-M. Visually and dimensionally the M10 and M11 are much the same, in the hand, M11 is lighter but also feels less dense. I shoot the same with both, The M11 is so familiar yet the shutter changes the whole feel.

In hindsight, for compatibility and familiarity , I should have chosen a M10-M, I'm sure I'd have been equally happy with the images.

I tend not to use the embedded technology, just relying on a fixed shutter speed and auto ISO, leaving me free to decide on DOF and focus and compose in the viewfinder.

The M11 is sleeker and more modern, with performance to match. The shutter is ... understandable, but immediately noticeable. I'm sure I'll get used to it.

Essentially the image that comes to mind is the M10 is a high powered luxurious sedan and the M11 is a sports car.

I still prefer the M10 platform ... M11-M files are pure magic and I'm looking forward to discovering where it takes me ...

And .... yes!. I do think the M10-R is where I jump off the merry go round.  

 

 

 

 

[Reciprocity]

On 12/20/2023 at 6:49 AM, w44neg said:

Hi yeah this is the issue, but even so, the “jump” from m1 to m3 is minuscule. They reached a turning point a couple of years ago and now it looks like they can’t really go further without another big advancement. 

Huh....interesting. I upgraded from a 16" 4TB SSD, M2Max w/ 96GB of ram to the new 16" M3Max, 4TB SSD with 128Gb of ram and it converts raw files 30-35% faster in LR than the M2Max. It will convert 102MP X2D file with all kinds of slider adjustments in LR or PS/ACR in less than one second per image, it's mind blowing fast in this souped up build, well worth the sub one year upgrade cycle in my case.  

As far as the M10-R, I am looking to build a super custom and gorgeous all silver one for certain high income circles so I am on the lookout for a clean one now and I have no interest in the M11. I have a black chrome M10-P that is my workhorse and I thought about getting a silver one of those as a second body, but I hear great things about the R version. I just hope it is as quiet as the M10-P, it really matters in the work I do.

Edited December 22, 2023 by Reciprocity

[Reciprocity]

Here is a rendering of the "Super Silver" M10-R I am looking to arrive at...;-)

 

 

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[jakontil]

The M10R file is very much doable in my M2 air but 16Gb ram, i knew wince the beginning how crucial a RAM to handle such files

weird though, my LR mobile in ipad pro M1 which i use to edit on the fly whose ram is 8Gb? Or less feels as fluid if not more when say, applying masking? I dont know the caveat but it is what it is

cant consider my M11 since i only set to 36mpx all the time

[LeicaR10]

W44neg,   I used the M10-R and M for a couple years and got tempted by the the 60 MP Ms.  I made the error with M11 series and found it was not for me for various reasons.  Reliability in the field being paramount among reasons for me to go back to the M10-R and M10-M.  These two latter M models are my most reliable M cameras.  For mirrorless, the SL2 series are in that same catagory.  Sometimes sticking with something that works just fine is good enough.  Merry Christmas!  r/ Mark

[jaapv]

20 minutes ago, jakontil said:

The M10R file is very much doable in my M2 air but 16Gb ram, i knew wince the beginning how crucial a RAM to handle such files

weird though, my LR mobile in ipad pro M1 which i use to edit on the fly whose ram is 8Gb? Or less feels as fluid if not more when say, applying masking? I dont know the caveat but it is what it is

cant consider my M11 since i only set to 36mpx all the time

I have a strong feeling that the M1 chip handles RAM better than the M2.

[Jeff S]

On 12/21/2023 at 12:47 PM, RexGig0 said:

Perhaps, if I have an opportunity to test-shoot with an M10-R, perhaps during a visit to a large Leica Store, I might learn something significant.

Also easy to rent in the US, which would provide more time to evaluate.

I’m content with M10M and M10-R as an enjoyable pairing (with the SL2 to complement needs outside the rangefinder ‘sweet spot’). The M10M, however, gets the most work, by far. High ISO has very little to do with that for me.
 

Jeff

[jakontil]

2 hours ago, jaapv said:

I have a strong feeling that the M1 chip handles RAM better than the M2.

That might be jaap, the M1 was was overkill back then and even now, there might be a halt in M2 that prevents it being more overpowered than what M1 have been

but also, might be due to the way LR Mobile works in generating the big file when viewing like it aint full size compared to LR mobile in mac?

AFAIK, LR classic works great though with 16Gb, i know 8Gb wont be a problem when not so multitasking too

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[Deejaybeephoto]

Have just replaced my 10 yr old MacBook Pro with 16 Gb ram with an M3Pro with 36 Gb ram. My old machine still runs the latest Capture One version (albeit a bit slowly) but my new laptop is so much faster (obviously).  Interestingly, I gave up on Lightroom with my old machine over 4 years ago because it ground to a halt with Lightroom even then!

[w44neg]

On 12/20/2023 at 4:42 PM, costa43 said:

I really hope it will not be the last digital Leica M I buy as that would mean Leica release nothing to perk my very perkable interest in the future, or that I cop it. Neither an appealing option! That being said, it doesn’t really have any glaring issues and the two minor niggles are it’s slowish wake time and it’s battery. Both workable for me.

On the subject of editing hardware, I own an m1 8gb iPad Pro and it’s absolutely fine with m10r files on the whole bar the odd tiny delay which is a non issue. My desktop pc is slow and in need of an upgrade. I think an M1 mac mini with 16gb ram should be fine as a starting point. 

My fear is that Leica will feel forced to update the M to an EVF-style camera, with IBIS etc. IMO it needs nothing more than the M10-R ever offered, so I couldn't be happier and hope this camera lasts as long as possible.

I work in IT and I'm certainly not averse to change, but sometimes, things are perfect, and they only change due to the market and profit sheets forcing them. 

On 12/22/2023 at 3:30 AM, Reciprocity said:

Huh....interesting. I upgraded from a 16" 4TB SSD, M2Max w/ 96GB of ram to the new 16" M3Max, 4TB SSD with 128Gb of ram and it converts raw files 30-35% faster in LR than the M2Max. It will convert 102MP X2D file with all kinds of slider adjustments in LR or PS/ACR in less than one second per image, it's mind blowing fast in this souped up build, well worth the sub one year upgrade cycle in my case.  

As far as the M10-R, I am looking to build a super custom and gorgeous all silver one for certain high income circles so I am on the lookout for a clean one now and I have no interest in the M11. I have a black chrome M10-P that is my workhorse and I thought about getting a silver one of those as a second body, but I hear great things about the R version. I just hope it is as quiet as the M10-P, it really matters in the work I do.

I'm sure at the very high end there are changes. My machine is an M3 Pro 18GB 1TB. 

On 12/22/2023 at 4:42 AM, Reciprocity said:

Here is a rendering of the "Super Silver" M10-R I am looking to arrive at...;-)

 

 

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Reminds me a little of the Zagato M10; one of the most beautiful objects on the planet.

10 hours ago, LeicaR10 said:

W44neg,   I used the M10-R and M for a couple years and got tempted by the the 60 MP Ms.  I made the error with M11 series and found it was not for me for various reasons.  Reliability in the field being paramount among reasons for me to go back to the M10-R and M10-M.  These two latter M models are my most reliable M cameras.  For mirrorless, the SL2 series are in that same catagory.  Sometimes sticking with something that works just fine is good enough.  Merry Christmas!  r/ Mark

Thanks for the feedback. I probably won't try an M11 as if I end up liking it, I'll be tempted to spend money lol. I'm honestly so happy with the 10-R and I find its shooting and noise performance to be ideal for my needs.