SL2S FW6.0

[LocalHero1953]

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18 minutes ago, LBJ2 said:

Face Tracking/Detection:

Just curious, have you ever tried experimenting with the different AF Profiles  Children/Pets, Team Sports, Runner/Wildlife and associated sub settings e.g., Depth Sensitivity/Field Movement/Shift to see if you can improve face detection and tracking performance? It can be a tedious trial and error process and the need for appropriates scenarios to test against, so I don't think many dive into these menus. I haven't done as much trial and error with these settings as I would like, but am curious if someone else has and the results.

No, I haven't. If I find the occasion, I will fiddle with them. I'd rather it worked properly straight out of the can, but I'm willing to experiment.

[Stuart Richardson]

I think it is great that they responded quickly and affirmatively to fix the issue. That said, we are already four years into the ownership and use of the SL2 series cameras, and I find it a bit odd that they come in with a firmware update that adjusts the controls. Presumably everyone who has had the camera for awhile now has settled into a groove and pattern of use. It seems quite disruptive that they just came in and "decided" to change it for everyone without really letting people know, and especially without giving an option for changing back. These subtle changes can really ruin your day, as both end users and presumably Leica's software team both just experienced.

I am still mad at Apple for changing the scrolling direction, lol. At least they let you change it, however!

 

[sarkleshark]

My Leica R lens to L body adapter also has lost the joystick press to magnify function when using R lenses.  

[Chuck Albertson]

2 hours ago, LBJ2 said:

Face Tracking/Detection:

Just curious, have you ever tried experimenting with the different AF Profiles  Children/Pets, Team Sports, Runner/Wildlife and associated sub settings e.g., Depth Sensitivity/Field Movement/Shift to see if you can improve face detection and tracking performance? It can be a tedious trial and error process and the need for appropriates scenarios to test against, so I don't think many dive into these menus. I haven't done as much trial and error with these settings as I would like, but am curious if someone else has and the results.

I shot a marathon a couple of weeks ago, using tracking AF and the (wait for it...) Runner AF profile. Worked a charm.

[LocalHero1953]

2 hours ago, Stuart Richardson said:

I think it is great that they responded quickly and affirmatively to fix the issue. That said, we are already four years into the ownership and use of the SL2 series cameras, and I find it a bit odd that they come in with a firmware update that adjusts the controls. Presumably everyone who has had the camera for awhile now has settled into a groove and pattern of use. It seems quite disruptive that they just came in and "decided" to change it for everyone without really letting people know, and especially without giving an option for changing back. These subtle changes can really ruin your day, as both end users and presumably Leica's software team both just experienced.

I am still mad at Apple for changing the scrolling direction, lol. At least they let you change it, however!

 

Conclusion: the SL3 has just been deferred for another 4 years!

[hdmesa]

9 hours ago, LUF Admin said:

Update on this issue from Leica SL product management in Wetzlar!...

Great news.

I do find it odd, though, they didn't know the joystick push-to-magnify was a popular feature. The SL line's autofocus, while workable, has been a bit behind the competition long enough now that recent SL2/SL2-S purchases have got to be heavily skewed toward M lens users who only make occasional use of an AF lens. SL owners who use mostly M lenses should be a higher-priority focus group for Leica.

I was about to go back to the SL2-S for manual focus adapted lenses after selling my Zf – that is, until this firmware came out and broke the joystick magnification feature. Instead I bought an S5 IIX, which also has the joystick push-to-magnify feature. Thanks to this purchase, I now also have some new-to-me things I may not be able to give up: PDAF with continuous AF tracking that actually works, lighter weight, open gate video with anamorphic lens support, image crop/masking ratio for X-Pan 65x24, etc. all while maintaining the color and noise performance I was used to (addicted to!) from the SL2-S. The LUMIX menu system is a pain compared to Leica, but it's ok once initial setup is done. Hopefully this will tide me over until the SL3, but bar is set pretty high for me now.

[Malabito]

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5 hours ago, LocalHero1953 said:

Not a great deal irritates me about the SL2-S, but these are the main issues:

• Face detection when multiple faces are present is unstable: one can use the joystick to select the preferred face, but it keeps changing.
• Face tracking: it loses individual faces e.g. when one crosses behind another.
• Face detection prefers the back of the head of a close person rather than a more distant face looking at the camera.
• I can't select AutoISO slowest shutter speed by focal length. I can only select a fixed shutter speed. With stabilised zoom lenses I would like to select 2/f or even 4/f at times.
• I want to assign toggle actions to buttons (i.e. one button press makes a change between A and B ) e.g. AF/MF, Face Detect/Field, Single/Burst modes.

In the end improvements to face recognition AF stability and tracking would keep me happy. The rest would be nice-to-haves.

thanks! i actually share the same sentiments for the issues you shared.

Panasonic S1 has a better implementation for face detect, i wished Leica would copy them, given they work together in a partnership. With the pana you can set an area of interest for face detect, this way it avoids jumping all around the frame. Perhaps they bring it for sl3

[Olaf_ZG]

3 hours ago, Stuart Richardson said:

 

I am still mad at Apple for changing the scrolling direction, lol. At least they let you change it, however!

 

Didn’t know this, thank you so much.

[Stuart Richardson]

1 hour ago, hdmesa said:

Great news.

I do find it odd, though, they didn't know the joystick push-to-magnify was a popular feature. The SL line's autofocus, while workable, has been a bit behind the competition long enough now that recent SL2/SL2-S purchases have got to be heavily skewed toward M lens users who only make occasional use of an AF lens. SL owners who use mostly M lenses should be a higher-priority focus group for Leica.

 

I think this is a little leap, to be honest. The AF-S performance in the SL2 is totally fine...at least in my experience. Certainly faster than manual! I wonder what the breakdown is for M users on the SL...whether it is a large percentage of users overall, or just more represented among users here, who tend to be Leica enthusiasts with a lot of their gear across the different lines. I have a bunch of M lenses but hardly ever use any of them on the SL2...I stick 95% of the time with L mount lenses. I don't really see the SL line as a natural choice for M users...seems like the M bodies and the EVF would give a better result in most cases...then you have the RF available when you want to focus quickly, the lenses perform better (especially at the edges) on a tailor made sensor, and the overall package is a lot smaller and lighter to boot. That said, the stabilization surely is a useful enhancement for M lenses.

[hdmesa]

31 minutes ago, Stuart Richardson said:

I think this is a little leap, to be honest. The AF-S performance in the SL2 is totally fine...at least in my experience. Certainly faster than manual!

I did say the SL2/SL2-S autofocus was workable and only a bit behind the competition. I think that is a somewhat generous statement, though 🫣 If you've been with any mirrorless platform at the time they jumped from CDAF to PDAF, it's a pretty big leap for anything but photographing still subjects.

31 minutes ago, Stuart Richardson said:

I wonder what the breakdown is for M users on the SL...whether it is a large percentage of users overall, or just more represented among users here, who tend to be Leica enthusiasts with a lot of their gear across the different lines. I have a bunch of M lenses but hardly ever use any of them on the SL2...I stick 95% of the time with L mount lenses. I don't really see the SL line as a natural choice for M users...seems like the M bodies and the EVF would give a better result in most cases...then you have the RF available when you want to focus quickly, the lenses perform better (especially at the edges) on a tailor made sensor, and the overall package is a lot smaller and lighter to boot. That said, the stabilization surely is a useful enhancement for M lenses.

The main point I wanted to make: if Leica wants to keep sales up for the SL2 with the SL3 announcement being so near, they need to keep us manual focus lens users in mind and not remove features we depend on. We're the ones that continue to buy new camera bodies even right before the next product announcement. Users who rely on autofocus are probably waiting for the SL3.

Edited December 12, 2023 by hdmesa
typos

[Olaf_ZG]

1 hour ago, Stuart Richardson said:

I think this is a little leap, to be honest. The AF-S performance in the SL2 is totally fine...at least in my experience. Certainly faster than manual! I wonder what the breakdown is for M users on the SL...whether it is a large percentage of users overall, or just more represented among users here, who tend to be Leica enthusiasts with a lot of their gear across the different lines. I have a bunch of M lenses but hardly ever use any of them on the SL2...I stick 95% of the time with L mount lenses. I don't really see the SL line as a natural choice for M users...seems like the M bodies and the EVF would give a better result in most cases...then you have the RF available when you want to focus quickly, the lenses perform better (especially at the edges) on a tailor made sensor, and the overall package is a lot smaller and lighter to boot. That said, the stabilization surely is a useful enhancement for M lenses.

I really enjoy the m-system and for me the range 24-50 would do. Except that sometimes I am asked to photograph horses for which I need tele. In order not to have the overlap, I opted for the SL as m-lenses are second best to be used on the SL. Having now both, my experience is also that m is used on m and l on sl. I could have may be better bought another system… but then, the 24/90 is really worth my investment in the SL system.

[V23]

1 hour ago, Stuart Richardson said:

I think this is a little leap, to be honest. The AF-S performance in the SL2 is totally fine...at least in my experience. Certainly faster than manual! I wonder what the breakdown is for M users on the SL...whether it is a large percentage of users overall, or just more represented among users here, who tend to be Leica enthusiasts with a lot of their gear across the different lines. I have a bunch of M lenses but hardly ever use any of them on the SL2...I stick 95% of the time with L mount lenses. I don't really see the SL line as a natural choice for M users...seems like the M bodies and the EVF would give a better result in most cases...then you have the RF available when you want to focus quickly, the lenses perform better (especially at the edges) on a tailor made sensor, and the overall package is a lot smaller and lighter to boot. That said, the stabilization surely is a useful enhancement for M lenses.

On that note there is a market for M mount EVF camera, simple, no video but IBIS, about 45MP. Leica and Rangefinder crowd would see this as some sort of heresy so many of us are using SL cameras with M lenses. Perhaps not ideal, but it works.

[LocalHero1953]

3 hours ago, hdmesa said:

recent SL2/SL2-S purchases have got to be heavily skewed toward M lens users who only make occasional use of an AF lens. SL owners who use mostly M lenses should be a higher-priority focus group for Leica.

What is the source of this info? Is it more than wishful thinking from those who want an EVF-only M?

For me, the use of M lenses on a SL2-S is a curiosity that occasionally works well. I really hope that the SL series continues its development as an advanced systems camera. If it allows for M lenses that's great - as long as that does not compromise its use with AF L-mount lenses.

[frame-it]

4 minutes ago, LocalHero1953 said:

What is the source of this info?

lots of deals over the past 1.5 years at least, around Asia = SL + M adapter

Leica is probably well aware that the SL makes a great platform for manual focus and other vintage lenses

Edited December 12, 2023 by frame-it

[LocalHero1953]

1 hour ago, hdmesa said:

I did say the SL2/SL2-S autofocus was workable and only a bit behind the competition. I think that is a somewhat generous statement, though 🫣 If you've been with any mirrorless platform at the time they jumped from CDAF to PDAF, it's a pretty big leap for anything but photographing still subjects.

The main point I wanted to make: if Leica wants to keep sales up for the SL2 with the SL3 announcement being so near, they need to keep us manual focus lens users in mind and not remove features we depend on. We're the ones that continue to buy new camera bodies even right before the next product announcement. Users who rely on autofocus are probably waiting for the SL3.

I've been using the SL and SL2-S for moving people since launch. See my website. I don't doubt there are better AF bodies out there, but as for photographing anything but still subjects, well.......😀

As I asked above, what is the source for your statement that it is manual focus users who are buying SL2/2-S bodies, and not AF users.?

[LocalHero1953]

3 minutes ago, frame-it said:

lots of deals over the past 1.5 years at least, around Asia = SL + M adapter

Leica is probably well aware that the SL makes a great platform for manual focus and other vintage lenses

I'm sure that's true. It still doesn't support the statement that "SL2/SL2-S purchases have got to be heavily skewed toward M lens users who only make occasional use of an AF lens." It just means that there is pent up demand from M users for a EVF camera that can use their lenses.

[frame-it]

4 minutes ago, LocalHero1953 said:

I'm sure that's true. It still doesn't support the statement that "SL2/SL2-S purchases have got to be heavily skewed toward M lens users who only make occasional use of an AF lens." It just means that there is pent up demand from M users for a EVF camera that can use their lenses.

well, im only talking about far east asia

i don't know what @hdmesa's source is for the western world.

[hdmesa]

1 hour ago, LocalHero1953 said:

What is the source of this info? Is it more than wishful thinking from those who want an EVF-only M?

For me, the use of M lenses on a SL2-S is a curiosity that occasionally works well. I really hope that the SL series continues its development as an advanced systems camera. If it allows for M lenses that's great - as long as that does not compromise its use with AF L-mount lenses.

What I wrote was clearly self-identified conjecture. No need to beat me up about it.

Quote

...have got to be...

 

[LBJ2]

18 hours ago, Chuck Albertson said:

I shot a marathon a couple of weeks ago, using tracking AF and the (wait for it...) Runner AF profile. Worked a charm.

I've used the Runner AF profile successfully too. These profiles can be useful and even further defined with the sub settings or additional parameters. I don't think many bother to experiment with these settings which in some cases might improve AF performance. 

 

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[Geoff C. Bassett]

Thank god I didn't update my camera. Joystick zoom for manual lenses is the main reason I own a SL2, it's removal on the SL2 prevents me from ever using this firmware and it missing from the SL3 would prevent me from ever buying that camera.