SL2S FW6.0

[LocalHero1953]

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I am very happy with the magnification function being moved to a dial - it works well for how I use it- but I agree the option should remain to use the joystick. 

[jjesp]

4 minutes ago, LocalHero1953 said:

I am very happy with the magnification function being moved to a dial - it works well for how I use it- but I agree the option should remain to use the joystick. 

But don't you loose the other function you had on that dial? Like if you shoot in M mode, will you loose the shutter speed or ISO you had set up on that wheel? Or is only magnifying when you press and hold the wheel?

[hansvons]

1 hour ago, frame-it said:

where did you heard/read that?

 

57 minutes ago, insomnia said:

it's not, the user had forgotten to enter a focal length

Thanks!!

[LocalHero1953]

58 minutes ago, jjesp said:

But don't you loose the other function you had on that dial? Like if you shoot in M mode, will you loose the shutter speed or ISO you had set up on that wheel? Or is only magnifying when you press and hold the wheel?

I usually shoot in A mode; with SL lenses EC is on the rear wheel and aperture on the front. With M lenses I don't need aperture on a wheel, so I can replace it with magnification. At the moment I have magnification on the rear wheel and EC on the front. Since I'm used to EC on the rear wheel, I may swap them around. If I want to change ISO (less rarely) then it is the top right button press followed by selection with the wheel.

And I gain a real benefit in having magnification directly on a wheel. Previously I had to press the joystick then select the magnification amount on a separate wheel, which was tedious. Now I just zoom in progressively with the wheel, and that allows me to see where in the scene I am zooming to. Previously if I had magnification set on maximum I could get confused by where in the scene I was. I rarely use the joystick to choose where to zoom to (too slow); I just focus and recompose - so I do not miss the joystick use for this.

You don't need to press and hold the wheel to get magnification: it works just like a lens zoom ring. Pressing the ring brings up the PASM selection menu as normal.

What this demonstrates is that every photographer shoots different subjects in a different way and has different ways of setting up their camera. I am very pleased Leica has implemented this change. I can understand that others wanted the old setup to remain as an option, but in itself the change makes sense.

[frame-it]

1 hour ago, LocalHero1953 said:

You don't need to press and hold the wheel to get magnification: it works just like a lens zoom ring

hang on, so there's no need to press the wheel, just turning it brings up magnification with M/R lenses?

 

Edited December 11, 2023 by frame-it

[jjesp]

 

EDIT - forget what I wrote below... My P-A-S-M was disabled in the Fn Buttons settings... 

Ok, I decided not to be a grumpy old man, update to the new world and live with the firmware changes... 😉

So now, when I press the thumb wheel, it magnifies just like it did on the joystick or on a Fn button. Fine. But then I realized that I often change exposure modes with that press on the wheel. But that can't be done, since exposure modes is not on the list of functions. So now we can only change P-A-S-M modes via the touch screen and first menu screen?

Edited December 11, 2023 by jjesp

[frame-it]

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[insomnia]

vor 53 Minuten schrieb frame-it:

hang on, so there's no need to press the wheel, just turning it brings up magnification with M/R lenses?

yes of course 😄 you can set magnification to either the thumb or the front wheel and still have one wheel left for (e.g.) exposure compensation 🙂 

[LocalHero1953]

7 hours ago, frame-it said:

hang on, so there's no need to press the wheel, just turning it brings up magnification with M/R lenses?

 

Correct

[LUF Admin]

On 12/8/2023 at 12:50 PM, Andy Y said:

To my astonishment the zoom/magnification function by pressing the joystick button doesn't work anymore. If you scroll through the menu and select the joystick options, the "zoom" option for MF lenses is not there anymore. This is rather annoying when using MF lenses. The only way you can use the magnification is by using the thumb wheel. This is less than ideal to say the least.

Update on this issue from Leica SL product management in Wetzlar!

I had written to SL product management and described your complaints. Last night I received this response:

----

With the firmware update 6.0.0, we have implemented an extension to the joystick assignments. This means that the function can be engaged with a joystick press for both AF-L and AE-L. The function remains active until a joystick press is performed again. This is an enhancement, as previously the joystick had to be held permanently in order to use the locking function.

In order to enable consistent usage behavior of the joystick, we have moved the magnification function for manual focus and manually focused lenses from the joystick to an FN button. By default, this is the upper front FN button. However, the function can also be assigned to any other FN button. This gives us greater flexibility when using the magnification function.
 
We can now see from the first customer reactions that the magnification function was very frequently used with the joystick and that customers would like to have the function there again.

We are taking this reaction very seriously and are therefore considering putting the magnification function back on the joystick in one of the next firmware updates, but without compromising the improvement in AF-L and AE-L.

----

My personal summary:

• Leica has thought about how to improve the operation.
• One function has been moved in order to consistently optimize another.
• The feedback from the forum is being taken seriously and they are now considering how to reconcile the two

I have the comparison to some other photo manufacturers. And Leica does a very good job of listening to its customers and responding to change requests.

Andreas

[Chris Nebard]

12 minutes ago, LUF Admin said:

Update on this issue from Leica SL product management in Wetzlar!

I had written to SL product management and described your complaints. Last night I received this response:

----

With the firmware update 6.0.0, we have implemented an extension to the joystick assignments. This means that the function can be engaged with a joystick press for both AF-L and AE-L. The function remains active until a joystick press is performed again. This is an enhancement, as previously the joystick had to be held permanently in order to use the locking function.

In order to enable consistent usage behavior of the joystick, we have moved the magnification function for manual focus and manually focused lenses from the joystick to an FN button. By default, this is the upper front FN button. However, the function can also be assigned to any other FN button. This gives us greater flexibility when using the magnification function.
 
We can now see from the first customer reactions that the magnification function was very frequently used with the joystick and that customers would like to have the function there again.

We are taking this reaction very seriously and are therefore considering putting the magnification function back on the joystick in one of the next firmware updates, but without compromising the improvement in AF-L and AE-L.

----

My personal summary:

• Leica has thought about how to improve the operation.
• One function has been moved in order to consistently optimize another.
• The feedback from the forum is being taken seriously and they are now considering how to reconcile the two

I have the comparison to some other photo manufacturers. And Leica does a very good job of listening to its customers and responding to change requests.

Andreas

This is welcome news, many thanks. 

[LocalHero1953]

Careful, Andreas - your success in getting such a response means you've opened the floodgates to all sorts of requests, which will now be sent directly to you!😉

[LUF Admin]

1 minute ago, LocalHero1953 said:

Careful, Andreas - your success in getting such a response means you've opened the floodgates to all sorts of requests, which will now be sent directly to you!😉

This is why I forwarded the reply.

So I can credibly deny any knowledge of details and backgrounds

Andreas

[Malabito]

1 hour ago, LUF Admin said:

Update on this issue from Leica SL product management in Wetzlar!

I had written to SL product management and described your complaints. Last night I received this response:

----

With the firmware update 6.0.0, we have implemented an extension to the joystick assignments. This means that the function can be engaged with a joystick press for both AF-L and AE-L. The function remains active until a joystick press is performed again. This is an enhancement, as previously the joystick had to be held permanently in order to use the locking function.

In order to enable consistent usage behavior of the joystick, we have moved the magnification function for manual focus and manually focused lenses from the joystick to an FN button. By default, this is the upper front FN button. However, the function can also be assigned to any other FN button. This gives us greater flexibility when using the magnification function.
 
We can now see from the first customer reactions that the magnification function was very frequently used with the joystick and that customers would like to have the function there again.

We are taking this reaction very seriously and are therefore considering putting the magnification function back on the joystick in one of the next firmware updates, but without compromising the improvement in AF-L and AE-L.

----

My personal summary:

• Leica has thought about how to improve the operation.
• One function has been moved in order to consistently optimize another.
• The feedback from the forum is being taken seriously and they are now considering how to reconcile the two

I have the comparison to some other photo manufacturers. And Leica does a very good job of listening to its customers and responding to change requests.

Andreas

i think leica should hire real photographers to test their cameras, (functionalities).... working professionals with some accreditations and working hours on their baggage, to use the cameras for real life situations, weddings, journalism, landscapes, and even street...

I really dont think this is the case given how their software is designed and issues they tend to have, some examples:

- you need to hold the exposure lock to hold exposure, only now this have changed, (after so many years)

- there is no real autofocus lock

- took so long to develop the functionality to recall the focus location to the center

- no face detect area priority, it considers all area in view, horrible for when you have many subjects in the frame

- no way enable true back focus unless you set the lens in manual

I am not talking about influencers or some users that have contact with leica, i am talking about photographers that can really provide an insight into their user experience and how the current could be improved. 

I really like using my m for what it is....and the simpler it stays the better. But the sl is another story, i am still not convinced about it given the user experience issues it has.

Edited December 12, 2023 by Malabito

[frame-it]

31 minutes ago, Malabito said:

i think leica should hire real photographers to test their cameras,

they do

[LocalHero1953]

1 hour ago, Malabito said:

i think leica should hire real photographers to test their cameras, (functionalities).... working professionals with some accreditations and working hours on their baggage, to use the cameras for real life situations, weddings, journalism, landscapes, and even street...

I really dont think this is the case given how their software is designed and issues they tend to have, some examples:

- you need to hold the exposure lock to hold exposure, only now this have changed, (after so many years)

- there is no real autofocus lock

- took so long to develop the functionality to recall the focus location to the center

- no face detect area priority, it considers all area in view, horrible for when you have many subjects in the frame

- no way enable true back focus unless you set the lens in manual

I am not talking about influencers or some users that have contact with leica, i am talking about photographers that can really provide an insight into their user experience and how the current could be improved. 

I really like using my m for what it is....and the simpler it stays the better. But the sl is another story, i am still not convinced about it given the user experience issues it has.

In your forum profile settings you can indicate if you're willing to be part of a Leica beta testing programme. I have done this for several firmware updates, but have not been invited recently. I don't know if that is just me, or if Leica has gone off the idea of using forum members as beta testers. Perhaps they got just as many complaints and undiscovered bugs after launch as they did without beta testers?

Your post illustrates the challenge for Leica in getting it right: none of the issues you list are things that cause me problems; probably none of the issues that irritate me would worry you!

[frame-it]

gotta wait for 6.01, ironic considering the SL601 was the 1st and had the best button layout of any camera in the universe.

Edited December 12, 2023 by frame-it

[Malabito]

32 minutes ago, LocalHero1953 said:

In your forum profile settings you can indicate if you're willing to be part of a Leica beta testing programme. I have done this for several firmware updates, but have not been invited recently. I don't know if that is just me, or if Leica has gone off the idea of using forum members as beta testers. Perhaps they got just as many complaints and undiscovered bugs after launch as they did without beta testers?

Your post illustrates the challenge for Leica in getting it right: none of the issues you list are things that cause me problems; probably none of the issues that irritate me would worry you!

Do you mind sharing what irritates you? i am honestly very close to giving up on my sl2.

I participated once as a beta tester, (not for the sl, but for another leica camera) but i am no working profesional, they need people that really can put the camera through all kind of situations, or at least those they want to address in the market.  

 

 

[LocalHero1953]

6 minutes ago, Malabito said:

Do you mind sharing what irritates you? i am honestly very close to giving up on my sl2.

I participated once as a beta tester, (not for the sl, but for another leica camera) but i am no working profesional, they need people that really can put the camera through all kind of situations, or at least those they want to address in the market.  

 

 

Not a great deal irritates me about the SL2-S, but these are the main issues:

• Face detection when multiple faces are present is unstable: one can use the joystick to select the preferred face, but it keeps changing.
• Face tracking: it loses individual faces e.g. when one crosses behind another.
• Face detection prefers the back of the head of a close person rather than a more distant face looking at the camera.
• I can't select AutoISO slowest shutter speed by focal length. I can only select a fixed shutter speed. With stabilised zoom lenses I would like to select 2/f or even 4/f at times.
• I want to assign toggle actions to buttons (i.e. one button press makes a change between A and B ) e.g. AF/MF, Face Detect/Field, Single/Burst modes.

In the end improvements to face recognition AF stability and tracking would keep me happy. The rest would be nice-to-haves.

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[LBJ2]

51 minutes ago, LocalHero1953 said:

Not a great deal irritates me about the SL2-S, but these are the main issues:

• Face detection when multiple faces are present is unstable: one can use the joystick to select the preferred face, but it keeps changing.
• Face tracking: it loses individual faces e.g. when one crosses behind another.
• Face detection prefers the back of the head of a close person rather than a more distant face looking at the camera.
• I can't select AutoISO slowest shutter speed by focal length. I can only select a fixed shutter speed. With stabilised zoom lenses I would like to select 2/f or even 4/f at times.
• I want to assign toggle actions to buttons (i.e. one button press makes a change between A and B ) e.g. AF/MF, Face Detect/Field, Single/Burst modes.

In the end improvements to face recognition AF stability and tracking would keep me happy. The rest would be nice-to-haves.

Face Tracking/Detection:

Just curious, have you ever tried experimenting with the different AF Profiles  Children/Pets, Team Sports, Runner/Wildlife and associated sub settings e.g., Depth Sensitivity/Field Movement/Shift to see if you can improve face detection and tracking performance? It can be a tedious trial and error process and the need for appropriates scenarios to test against, so I don't think many dive into these menus. I haven't done as much trial and error with these settings as I would like, but am curious if someone else has and the results.