Leica Q3 Hidden Cost of ownership

[Miltz]

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There's something that I really didn't think about when I ordered my Q3 that ended increasing my cost to own and use the camera. This can really affect your workflow as it did mine and basically add $3,000-$4000 to the already high price tag of $6,000. That Hidden cost is your computer. It's really the last thing I thought I would have upgrade to be able to use the camera in a professional workflow. My 16 inch M1 Pro 16GB/1TB was wicked fast and showed no signs of slowing down at all, that is until I went from editing Nikon Z6 files to Leica Q3 files. This is using Adobe Bridge, Camera Raw, and Photoshop. If you use other programs, don't shoot professionally, and don't really edit your files and shoot jpegs this may not affect you. For me it basically made my M1 Pro barely usable and my workflow suffered greatly. I had to upgrade to a 14" M3 Max 36GB/1TB and I have to say this system can handle the Q3 raw files, edits, and all my workflow beautifully. It's basically 2-3x faster. Things like Denoise went from 60+ seconds to 24 seconds, not to mention I can work on multiple images and not have to close everything down just to edit one photo like before. This might be obvious, but it wasn't for me until I started seriously working my new camera. I think anyone with a M2 Max with 32GB should also be okay , or even a M1 Ultra with 32GB or more. Something to note for those who aren't aware if you have 16GB of ram and are using swap all the time it will ruin your SSD in the long run depending on your usage. If you're wondering if the laptop gets hot or if the fans turn on, the answer is it's dead silent and cool. 

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Edited December 2, 2023 by Miltz

[Anakronox]

Yep, RAM is always the bottleneck with large raws.  I had to switch from an M1 Pro with 16GB to an M1 Max with 64 just to keep PS for locking up constantly while editing 47 MP files.

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[LocalHero1953]

I have a M1 Pro MacBook Pro with 32Gb RAM and 1TB drive, although most of the time I ingest and edit images on a desktop PC which is high spec but a couple of years older. I am editing Q2 files, not Q3, but the experience should be similar. I have just imported some Q2 shots I took last night to the MacBook and Lightroom CC (not Classic - I avoid Classic on the MacBook to prevent confusion with the catalogue on the PC). LR Denoise AI quoted 55 secs per image, and it took roughly that. I imported the same images to the PC and LR Classic quoted 20 secs per image.

In other respects I have found editing Q2 files in LR CC to be of comparable speed to the PC - the Q2 and MacBook are constant companions when we travel - images get transferred to the main LR Classic catalogue on the PC when I get home. I guess Denoise AI is new enough that I haven't been using it on the MacBook other than for occasional single images. I use Denoise AI a lot on the PC, but after, say, a theatrical rehearsal with several hundred images, I ingest them when I return home, make an initial cull, then apply Denoise AI to the survivors as a batch run overnight, so I haven't paid much attention to processing time.

My PC has a separate RT2080 GPU, but the M1 chips with integrated GPU were supposed to be at least as good as a separate GPU. I am surprised at the poor performance by the MacBook compared to a Windows desktop 2 years older.

Edited December 2, 2023 by LocalHero1953

[Miltz]

8 minutes ago, LocalHero1953 said:

I have a M1 Pro MacBook Pro with 32Gb RAM and 1TB drive, although most of the time I ingest and edit images on a desktop PC which is high spec but a couple of years older. I am editing Q2 files, not Q3, but the experience should be similar. I have just imported some Q2 shots I took last night to the MacBook and Lightroom CC (not Classic - I avoid Classic on the MacBook to prevent confusion with the catalogue on the PC). LR Denoise AI quoted 55 secs per image, and it took roughly that. I imported the same images to the PC and LR Classic quoted 20 secs per image.

In other respects I have found editing Q2 files in LR CC to be of comparable speed to the PC - the Q2 and MacBook are constant companions when we travel - images get transferred to the main LR Classic catalogue on the PC when I get home. I guess Denoise AI is new enough that I haven't been using it on the MacBook other than for occasional single images. I use Denoise AI a lot on the PC, but after, say, a theatrical rehearsal with several hundred images, I ingest them when I return home, make an initial cull, then apply Denoise AI to the survivors as a batch run overnight, so I haven't paid much attention to processing time.

My PC has a separate RT2080 GPU, but the M1 chips with integrated GPU were supposed to be at least as good as a separate GPU. I am surprised at the poor performance by the MacBook compared to a Windows desktop 2 years older.

I'm not. The RTX 2080 GPU is a beast. (wattage wise it's in a difference category completely) The New M3 Max is the only Apple GPU that can compete with it, and perhaps the M2 Ultra.

[M11 for me]

DELETED

Sorry, my answer was not the answer to your question.

Edited December 2, 2023 by M11 for me

[LocalHero1953]

Just now, Miltz said:

I'm not. The RTX 2080 GPU is a beast. (wattage wise it's in a difference category completely) The New M3 Max is the only Apple GPU that can compete with it, and perhaps the M2 Ultra.

And there was I wondering whether to upgrade to a RT4080😉

[jaapv]

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27 minutes ago, LocalHero1953 said:

I have a M1 Pro MacBook Pro with 32Gb RAM and 1TB drive, although most of the time I ingest and edit images on a desktop PC which is high spec but a couple of years older. I am editing Q2 files, not Q3, but the experience should be similar. I have just imported some Q2 shots I took last night to the MacBook and Lightroom CC (not Classic - I avoid Classic on the MacBook to prevent confusion with the catalogue on the PC). LR Denoise AI quoted 55 secs per image, and it took roughly that. I imported the same images to the PC and LR Classic quoted 20 secs per image.

In other respects I have found editing Q2 files in LR CC to be of comparable speed to the PC - the Q2 and MacBook are constant companions when we travel - images get transferred to the main LR Classic catalogue on the PC when I get home. I guess Denoise AI is new enough that I haven't been using it on the MacBook other than for occasional single images. I use Denoise AI a lot on the PC, but after, say, a theatrical rehearsal with several hundred images, I ingest them when I return home, make an initial cull, then apply Denoise AI to the survivors as a batch run overnight, so I haven't paid much attention to processing time.

My PC has a separate RT2080 GPU, but the M1 chips with integrated GPU were supposed to be at least as good as a separate GPU. I am surprised at the poor performance by the MacBook compared to a Windows desktop 2 years older.

Try Topaz Photo AI. It replaces Denoise AI and Sharpen AI in one action for most images and is really fast, leaving the slower Topaz plugins for shots that need to be rescued. 

[Stephen_C]

M2 Pro, 32GB RAM + Capture One Pro 23 is absolutely fine for Q3.

Stephen

Edited December 2, 2023 by Stephen_C
Add reference to Q3

[LocalHero1953]

12 minutes ago, jaapv said:

Try Topaz Photo AI. It replaces Denoise AI and Sharpen AI in one action for most images and is really fast, leaving the slower Topaz plugins for shots that need to be rescued. 

I have Topaz Photo AI, and use it when I need Sharpening with face recovery. I don't find the Topaz Denoise better than Lightroom, and Lightroom leaves you with a DNG, not a Tiff. In other respects Topaz has more customisation options. I haven't noticed a big increase in speed using Topaz Photo over Sharpen and Denoise, except that it is a one-stop-shop.

If I had to summarise, I use Lightroom Denoise for routine editing. I use Topaz Photo for recovery from my mistakes in focusing, or selecting the wrong aperture and shutter speed.

Edit: I have also had a number of crashes when using Topaz Photo for batch editing from Lightroom; I don't know if that is the fault of Adobe, Topaz or my system, but it's frustrating to get up in the morning and find a batch edit of several hundred images hasn't happened. 

Edited December 2, 2023 by LocalHero1953

[jaapv]

Often slow speed of a Mac can be resolved by CleanMyMac. It is surprising how much old junk files can slow the machine down.

[jaapv]

7 minutes ago, LocalHero1953 said:

I have Topaz Photo AI, and use it when I need Sharpening with face recovery. I don't find the Topaz Denoise better than Lightroom, and Lightroom leaves you with a DNG, not a Tiff. In other respects Topaz has more customisation options.

I use the Topaz suite as plugins in Photoshop, so the TIFF consideration does not even occur. Maybe that is the speed problem, TIFF files are huge and eat up RAM.

 

[jaapv]

I find the noise removal of DXO the best on the market. I open the file in DXO and export it as a DNG to open up in Bridge. Only for extremely noisy files, as the procedure takes a bit of time and extra effort.

[David Wien]

5 minutes ago, jaapv said:

I find the noise removal of DXO the best on the market. I open the file in DXO and export it as a DNG to open up in Bridge. Only for extremely noisy files, as the procedure takes a bit of time and extra effort.

There are now four noise removal options in DXO Photolab. One doesnt always need to choose Deep Prime XD, which uses the most resources, when one of the lesser and presumably gentler options will do the trick!

David

[jaapv]

I am a bit surprised at this thread. I have both a Mac Mini M1 16 GB  1TB and an identical Macbook Air, bought when no more RAM was available, and although my max. DNGs are for 24 MP files, I do use Megapixel and I only had (very) occasional RAM problems with the first version of Ventura and after the first update never again. Actually on Sonoma I would call both pretty fast. My findings are confirmed by the benchmarks one can find on the Internet.

[Pelu2010]

36 minutes ago, jaapv said:

Try Topaz Photo AI. It replaces Denoise AI and Sharpen AI in one action for most images and is really fast, leaving the slower Topaz plugins for shots that need to be rescued. 

Yes! And it make images color much nicer too 

[LocalHero1953]

Question to the OP @Miltz: is it mainly the AI tools that you find slow, or all editing? I wonder if the issue is a glitch in how Adobe Denoise uses the M1 chips vs a separate GPU.

[jaapv]

39 minutes ago, Pelu2010 said:

Yes! And it make images color much nicer too 

I use it as the first step in PS for 90% of my photos. 

[Pelu2010]

19 minutes ago, jaapv said:

I use it as the first step in PS for 90% of my photos. 

I use it at the end 🤣

[David Wien]

1 hour ago, Pelu2010 said:

Yes! And it make images color much nicer too 

Surely, you joke! Even Topaz dont claim has any effect on the colour...

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Hallo,

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[jaapv]

But it does improve colour transitions by AI noise removal and sharpening.