Leica M11 -purplish tint ???

[jaapv]

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The M8 was developed in cooperation with  Kodak. The firmware was written by Zeiss Jena. So was the M9. Leica only started the software bit with the M240 or maybe partly the M9 Monochrom which used linear DNG much to the surprise of software developers. Apple only caught up after a year. Before that we had to run Monochrom files through Adobes converter to display them natively on Mac. 
As for the aliasing filter tag that is probably because of the shifted microlenses. The unusual position of the aperture location can well be because of the unorthodox method of obtaining and unreliability of the value. 

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[jeri]

Not that I find any special problems in terms of over purple tint from the DNG files that come directly from the Leica M11.
Anyway, I did a short experiment with two image processing software, and one shared DNG file. And as I see it, the numbers are slightly different, but the results are almost the same.
The first image from my little experiment is a screenshot taken from the latest version of Capture One 23 software.

 

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The second image is a similar screenshot, except that this time it was taken from the RawTherapee 5.9 software.

 

In any case, these programs produce a wide performance range, one that allows each photographer to get the best result he prefers.

[colint544]

Initially I was shooting on auto colour balance. There was a definite magenta cast to the files. These days I manually select colour balance from the menu. It doesn't make much difference, I think the magenta cast is just a feature of, at least my M11.

I just nudge the Photoshop slider a bit towards the green. Not ideal - especially in such an expensive camera - but it's funny how you get accustomed to workarounds. I wonder if Leica will ever acknowledge this, let alone fix it somehow, or if we just have to live with it. 

On a side issue, I usually dial the clarity down to at least -20, and also reduce the saturation, but put the vibrance up a bit. To me eye, it takes the digital 'edge' off the image.

[Adam Bonn]

2 hours ago, jaapv said:

As for the aliasing filter tag that is probably because of the shifted microlenses. The unusual position of the aperture location can well be because of the unorthodox method of obtaining and unreliability of the value. 

It's not a tag they carried over to subsequent Ms..

(The M9 also applied 0.5stops of negative exposure via a DNG tag!)

Anyway I fear I'll take us desperately off topic here.

I can explain why and how having an undesirable WB algorithm can throw out what one expects for "As Shot WB" in adobe (because the ASN is the foundation that all the colour maths is based on), but more importantly for the M11 user base, yourself and many others can offer practical solutions in the editing tools available.

Or put another way, unless Leica decides to change something - it is what it is.

[Adam Bonn]

4 minutes ago, colint544 said:

I wonder if Leica will ever acknowledge this, let alone fix it somehow

They have acknowledged and fixed it historically with the 240 and M10.

The fix is too tweak the part of their camera SW/FW that calculates the WB

[jaapv]

57 minutes ago, Adam Bonn said:

They have acknowledged and fixed it historically with the 240 and M10.

The fix is too tweak the part of their camera SW/FW that calculates the WB

They changed the AWB on the M8 to balance the outdoor and indoor light better. 

[UliWer]

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vor 2 Minuten schrieb jaapv:

They changed the AWB on the M8 to balance the outdoor and indoor light better. 

Yes, and perhaps this was the most successful firmware tweak they ever did. 

 

vor einer Stunde schrieb Adam Bonn:

They have acknowledged and fixed it historically with the ... M10.

Which new firmware for the M10 was this?

[Adam Bonn]

2 hours ago, UliWer said:

Which new firmware for the M10 was this?

it'll be years old by now!

[hdmesa]

3 hours ago, Adam Bonn said:

...The fix is too tweak the part of their camera SW/FW that calculates the WB

It's a fine line since with the M10/M10-R, I heard quite a few "Leicas are too green" comments during those years.

At least with all Leicas I've used (M10-P, M10-R, M11, SL2, SL2-S, Q) the white balance once adjusted in post gives a very attractive overall color palette (except for the Q2, which had strange colors in Capture One to my eye). There are other cameras I have tried that adjusting the white balance on the RAW files in Capture One never gave me pleasing results even if the auto white balance in camera was nearly perfect (Nikon for example).

[Adam Bonn]

I figure Leica aren't going to sign off on extra (wo)man hours for further dev work on the WB algorithm for the hell of it... but if enough people make enough noise...

[lct]

6 hours ago, Adam Bonn said:

I figure Leica aren't going to sign off on extra (wo)man hours for further dev work on the WB algorithm for the hell of it... but if enough people make enough noise...

Time for me to keep quiet for once then 😄

 

[Edax]

A quick scan through the Leica M11 images thread: no, the BW-converted do not suffer from this issue 🙂 but about a lot of the others (but not all), I am not so sure 🙃. YMMV.

[LocalHero1953]

29 minutes ago, Edax said:

A quick scan through the Leica M11 images thread: no, the BW-converted do not suffer from this issue 🙂 but about a lot of the others (but not all), I am not so sure 🙃. YMMV.

If posted images suffered from magenta cast, that suggests to me the camera is fine, but the photographer is at fault. Because surely no photographer with a decent eye would post a photo here with a recognisable magenta cast? 😉 

[don daniel]

vor 32 Minuten schrieb Edax:

A quick scan through the Leica M11 images thread: no, the BW-converted do not suffer from this issue 🙂 but about a lot of the others (but not all), I am not so sure 🙃. YMMV.

I also see a lot of BW there. Then a lot of pictures with magenta cast out of camera, and the some with obviously corrected WB. I am not against the artistic freedom to depict colors as specifically as you want. But I am against Leica forcing a specific artistic coloration on me as a starting point. 

[jaapv]

in my experience no OOC staring point is correct on any camera. If not the colour balance, it is the contrast, the curve, the sharpness or any combination thereof. That is why it is a starting point. 

[Lumenlabs]

Sometimes I feel some of the most prolific posters here are just AI bots. Programmed to ingest our issues and then come up with all sorts of reasons to defend and excuse Leica from their very clear software incompetencies.

[setuporg]

1 hour ago, Lumenlabs said:

Sometimes I feel some of the most prolific posters here are just AI bots. Programmed to ingest our issues and then come up with all sorts of reasons to defend and excuse Leica from their very clear software incompetencies.

We call them OGs around here.:)

[jaapv]

1 hour ago, Lumenlabs said:

Sometimes I feel some of the most prolific posters here are just AI bots. Programmed to ingest our issues and then come up with all sorts of reasons to defend and excuse Leica from their very clear software incompetencies.

Absolutely. I was released from my server in 2004… JaapvGPT. 

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[J S H]

I’m amazed at the mindset when we are talking about one of the most expensive and specialized 24x36 cameras on the market. It’s a professional tool and like many other professional tools, there will be some interaction required to generate top level results. There is always going to be a need for adjustment of any shot before you are truly happy with the look.
 

If you are relying on jpeg’s straight out of the camera to fulfill your photographic vision, then your standards are obviously pretty relaxed and any minor variance in WB should probably be acceptable. Otherwise, probably best to tweak the WB in post and create the look that you desire. 

[la1402]

24 minutes ago, J S H said:

If you are relying on jpeg’s straight out of the camera to fulfill your photographic vision, then your standards are obviously pretty relaxed and any minor variance in WB should probably be acceptable. Otherwise, probably best to tweak the WB in post and create the look that you desire. 

Completely irrelevant and way besides the point. The gap between Leicas entry level software quality vs their premium level pricing and brand positioning should be inexcusable to anyone. 

It is neither helpful nor correct how some brand loyalists continue to prescribe „relaxed standards“, laziness, lack of knowledge and other things to people who call out Leicas shortcomings. It is also not going to close the discussion.