Will the SL3 have a global shutter?

[Dr. G]

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41 minutes ago, Leicaflex said:

It‘s a bit like Sony answered a question nobody asked. But it‘s a great marketing coup to have the first global shutter camera (or at least the second after the PIXII).
 

Actually, that's not true.  Before I moved to my SL2-S setup I had an a9ii and an a1.  Rolling shutter was something Sony sports and action shooters were always complaining about on the forums and even a few years back users were wondering if and when global shutter technology was going to be available for their cameras.

[Leicaflex]

vor 3 Minuten schrieb Dr. G:

Actually, that's not true.  Before I moved to my SL2-S setup I had an a9ii and an a1.  Rolling shutter was something Sony sports and action shooters were always complaining about on the forums and even a few years back users were wondering if and when global shutter technology was going to be available for their cameras.

I won‘t deny that there are situations where the global shutter has advantages, but the rolling shutter was already so well controlled on all the stacked sensor cameras to reach a point of „good enough“.

Just wondering, is Sports Photography still such a big thing? Many printed magazines and newspapers are gone and there is a lot more video than photography used for the digital outlets and social media. Maybe it‘s more like a prestige battle between Canon and Sony. 

[frankchn]

9 hours ago, Simone_DF said:

I doubt it. The SL line has been marketed also to the video folks, at least compared to the M11 and Q3. The IMX455 has a slow readout speed and it's not great for video.

I think the video focused camera would be the SL3-S? The Q3 with the same sensor can output decent 8Kp30 video, so that is likely good enough as an upgrade from the SL2.

[Geoff C. Bassett]

My bet is that the SL3 will be the sensor from the A1, old enough for sony to sell it to competitors, and it's a great photo sensor and it's excellent for video as well. 

This sensor would lesson the image quality compared to the previous SL cameras. 

This is too new and Sony will want to keep it close to the chest. Also I don't want it because photos seem to have significantly less dynamic range that their other cameras.  I would rather have 5 frames a second and significantly better DR. I would guess many Leica shooter would as well, Leica have no tele's that can compete in the professional sports market, which this Sony camera is aiming at.

[Guest]

19 hours ago, Chuck Albertson said:

How the f**k would we know?

Because there are realistically no other available sensors that Leica could use? We know from this forum, and elsewhere, that Leica takes 6-12 months to field test cameras. For any 2024 model therefore 95% probability it will not go beyond current state of the art.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Geoff C. Bassett said:

My bet is that the SL3 will be the sensor from the A1, old enough for sony to sell it to competitors, and it's a great photo sensor and it's excellent for video as well. 

This sensor would lesson the image quality compared to the previous SL cameras. 

This is too new and Sony will want to keep it close to the chest. Also I don't want it because photos seem to have significantly less dynamic range that their other cameras.  I would rather have 5 frames a second and significantly better DR. I would guess many Leica shooter would as well, Leica have no tele's that can compete in the professional sports market, which this Sony camera is aiming at.

As you point out re:IQ, A1 sensor has less DR and is inferior to e.g. the one used in the Sony A7R V. The entire Leica ecosystem, notably lenses, is not optimized for video. The tradeoff would be horrible.

Edited November 10, 2023 by mzbe

[BernardC]

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I doubt that Leica is looking to replace one old sensor with another old sensor. That's not what they've done with previous SL models.

We only know about sensors that are already commercially available, so it's understandable why the conversation leans in that direction. Leica (and every other camera brand) talk directly with sensor suppliers, so they know what's in the pipeline for future sensor generations.

[ynp]

I suspect that the new camera will be a result of the L2 cooperation program with Panasonic. I will be waiting for the new Panasonic camera to see what the future brings for Leica. I think the new Sony is irrelevant…

[frankchn]

5 hours ago, BernardC said:

I doubt that Leica is looking to replace one old sensor with another old sensor. That's not what they've done with previous SL models.

We only know about sensors that are already commercially available, so it's understandable why the conversation leans in that direction. Leica (and every other camera brand) talk directly with sensor suppliers, so they know what's in the pipeline for future sensor generations.

They did it with the SL2. The 47.3 MP sensor was launched with the Panasonic S1R in January 2019, then Leica Q2 in March 2019, then the SL2 in November 2019, then the M10-R in June 2020, then finally the Q2M in November 2020.

So by the time the SL2 was launched, it wasn't new any more. We can also see that Leica has a habit of using the same sensor with different optical stacks across the SL, Q, and M lines. Now that we have seen the 61 MP sensor in both the M11/M11M/M11P and the Q3, it would be very surprising for Leica to use anything else on the SL3.

[Richardgb]

On 11/9/2023 at 1:56 PM, trickness said:

And here I thought most of us were underwear models…..

That is the aspiration of directors of technology companies or senior strategic tech consultants. Or more likely their fantasy.

You're jumping ahead...

[algrove]

6 hours ago, frankchn said:

They did it with the SL2. The 47.3 MP sensor was launched with the Panasonic S1R in January 2019, then Leica Q2 in March 2019, then the SL2 in November 2019, then the M10-R in June 2020, then finally the Q2M in November 2020.

So by the time the SL2 was launched, it wasn't new any more. We can also see that Leica has a habit of using the same sensor with different optical stacks across the SL, Q, and M lines. Now that we have seen the 61 MP sensor in both the M11/M11M/M11P and the Q3, it would be very surprising for Leica to use anything else on the SL3.

Agree with this analysis.

[bags27]

A global shutter will be refined and eventually make central plane (Leica S SC) lenses and focal plane (Hasselblad) lenses obsolete, I'm thinking.

[helged]

2 hours ago, bags27 said:

A global shutter will be refined and eventually make central plane (Leica S SC) lenses and focal plane (Hasselblad) lenses obsolete, I'm thinking.

Agree. And I would imagine it will take some, possibly 2-4, generations before a global shutter is at a 'mature' level. Before that, and after Panasonic has implemented the global shutter, Leica will continue with 'safe', existing, technology.

Regarding a mirrorless S4; it could very well be that those lenses will come w/o CS. Important decisions to be made at Wetzlar...

[JohnathanLovm]

5 hours ago, bags27 said:

A global shutter will be refined and eventually make central plane (Leica S SC) lenses and focal plane (Hasselblad) lenses obsolete, I'm thinking.

Technically the global shutter sensor with medium format do exist (Sony IMX 661) and currently used in Phase One P5. It’s matter of time we will see a global shutter medium format camera from Fuji/Hassy/Leica.

[BernardC]

17 hours ago, frankchn said:

So by the time the SL2 was launched, it wasn't new any more. We can also see that Leica has a habit of using the same sensor with different optical stacks across the SL, Q, and M lines. Now that we have seen the 61 MP sensor in both the M11/M11M/M11P and the Q3, it would be very surprising for Leica to use anything else on the SL3.

There was 6 months between the first review of the S1r and SL2. We aren't talking about a sensor that's been out since 2019 like Sony's 60MP PDAF sensor.

Do the Q3 and M11 share a sensor? That means that the M has (dormant) PDAF. Is there any evidence. How do we explain that the two sensors test differently? All evidence points to the two sensors being different. That doesn't rule-out a common vendor, of course.

In my mind, the main reason for ruling-out the old Sony PDAF sensor is that it isn't very good at video, and it doesn't excel at still photography either. I don't think it is competitive in 2024. After all, it tests worse than the sensor we already have in the SL2. Maybe it's just me, but I don't think that Leica is all that interested in saving a few Euros on sensors, if it means a step back in performance.

[SrMi]

I would not postpone a camera purchase because of upcoming global shutter cameras.

[SrMi]

4 hours ago, BernardC said:

Do the Q3 and M11 share a sensor? That means that the M has (dormant) PDAF. Is there any evidence. How do we explain that the two sensors test differently? All evidence points to the two sensors being different. That doesn't rule-out a common vendor, of course.

PDAF is not part of the sensor silicon but is part of the sensor toppings. While Q3, M11, a7rIV, and Sigma fp-l may share the same Sony 60MP sensor, they all have different toppings. Neither M11 nor Sigma fp-L have PDAF.

4 hours ago, BernardC said:

In my mind, the main reason for ruling-out the old Sony PDAF sensor is that it isn't very good at video, and it doesn't excel at still photography either. I don't think it is competitive in 2024.

Why do you think that the 60MP will not be competitive in 2024? Which one is better?

The 60MP Sony excels at still photography (see M11, Q3, fp-L, a7rV) and is closely related to the sensors in the latest MF cameras. It is currently the best sensor available for still photography. A stacked sensor may improve action photography but brings nothing to landscape/urbanscape photography. 

An SL-3 with the current 60MP sensor would be quite a jump in IQ.

[jrp]

Global shutter sensors are likely to consume more energy and so lead to noisier images.  Their use is targeted at sports / action (where Leica lacks lenses) or high speed flash (where the less said about leica, the better).  So it wouldn't be a good fit.  Exploiting the better colour / contrast of Leica's lenses would seem to be a better one.

 

[TeleElmar135mm]

The Sony has 24 MP - the SL2 the double. The Question is, is it now possible  to build a 48 MP or 60+MP sensor with a Global Shutter. The processor must have a much more computing power and the battery power must be increased. So I think the Global shutters are (now) for a SL3-s more likely SL4-s.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[jaapv]

I think that you will find that camera makers, including Leica, will be offering 24 MP cameras for the optimal usability/image quality balance and high-resolution cameras for specialized use side by side. And of course for more-is-better marketing.