Leica M11 Firmware V 2.0.1

[don daniel]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

vor 50 Minuten schrieb Smogg:

Unfortunately, this is a common behavior for m11, which it seems the manufacturer is not going to fix. 

We should not let Leica get away with a faulty white balance. I regularly see RAW files from various manufacturers, including Nikon, Canon, Fuji. I also have many RAW files from older M models and from the Q and Q2 on my computer. No other camera shows a pink fantasy world like the M11 (and the M11-P). I haven't resigned yet and believe that Leica doesn't want to make a fool of itself. The most correct white balance possible, both in the automatic setting and in the fixed settings, is absolutely essential for a reportage camera. In my opinion, authenticity of photography also refers to colour. 

[Smogg]

1 hour ago, don daniel said:

We should not let Leica get away with a faulty white balance. I regularly see RAW files from various manufacturers, including Nikon, Canon, Fuji. I also have many RAW files from older M models and from the Q and Q2 on my computer. No other camera shows a pink fantasy world like the M11 (and the M11-P). I haven't resigned yet and believe that Leica doesn't want to make a fool of itself. The most correct white balance possible, both in the automatic setting and in the fixed settings, is absolutely essential for a reportage camera. In my opinion, authenticity of photography also refers to colour. 

There's not much we can do to affect the situation. I am sure that Leica is aware of the problem with white balance, many people have been writing about it for a long time, but nothing changes. I noticed that this happens most often in cloudy weather or when shooting in the shade. That's why I take small Ricoh with me to measure the white balance before shooting.
But if I plan to go to shoot and I know for sure that there will be no sun on this day, I just don't take the Leica M11 with me anymore, I switch to X2D in this weather

[M11 for me]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb don daniel:

We should not let Leica get away with a faulty white balance

Hi Daniel, 

When we assume that Leica reads here and that they do exactly what a majority of the posters requests then it is probably necessary to bring in other positions. And the other position would be: Dear Leica, do not tough the auto WB of the M11. Its any time better than the one of the Q3. And its very similar to Canon, which I like a lot as well.

Now Daniel, this is not to write any polemic statement against you. I know about your opinion and I would love to meet you in person some time. I used the R5 a lot recently and the Q3 as well. M11 and R5 are a similar pair and they cause no problem to me (to me!!!) 

Please take this with some humour. I am sure that you are used to discuss other views. Maybe I am fully wrong and I misunderstand the whole thing. I am very open. What I write here is just my personal experience with Leica and Canon and especially my recent experiences in the mountains (Q3 and M11 in Engelberg) and at ROCHE with Q3 an R5 yesterday. Maybe if we would work on my images in LR Classic together I would have to change my mind.

I just worked this whole Sunday on Canon and Q3 images taken yesterday. I like the result that I published. But you might think that its awful.

😁

Edited October 29, 2023 by M11 for me
I forgot the Smiley

[davidmknoble]

9 hours ago, don daniel said:

M11, SL50mm asph. auto white balance
LR shows: Temperature: 5600, Tint: 22

Ridiculous amount of magenta in the Leica picture. An M10-R or an M10 would never do this!

Z9, Nikkor Z24-120mm at 50mm, auto white balance A1
LR shows: Temperature 5500, Tint: +16

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

A couple of questions.  What is the SL50mm asph lens for the M?  

Second, is the lens you are using a new computation (as the Nikon Z24-120 is a new lens)? Lenses have different degrees of representing color.  Older lenses were not always great representations and some were even more saturated than others.  As it turns out the MATE 28-50-35 was one of the most color neutral lenses made.  

It is very tough to compare camera auto white balances with different era lenses.  I think a better experiment might be to use different lenses on the same cameras and see if the AWB changes for the same bodies.  I.e., does the Nikon produce the same temperature and tint for the same scene with different lenses?  For the Leica, the newer APO lenses are probably better tuned to this sensor and may also provide different temperature and tint for the same scene?

I have used the 28mm Summicron M (version 2) on the M11 and gotten spot on color both in cloudy and early morning light situations using AWB.  I see your differences, but I question the results as I wonder if different lenses produce the same answers.

I dont’ have a Nikon Z, but could see looking at Leica S, SL and M to compare AWB and sunny temps and tints…

Just my thoughts.

 

[don daniel]

Thank you for your points of view. Yes, I am used to discussing different opinions and accepting others. I don't want to hijack this thread either. After all, this is supposed to be about the new firmware. Just to clarify: in the comparison above, I used the Summilux 50mm asph. and that is the second newest version, not the one with the extended close-up option. I still consider this lens to be up to date. But it does not matter which lens I use. I also own the Apo-Summicron 35mm. The result is the same: magenta tint. The Nikon lens used is the current native Z24-120mm f/4.

We could perhaps do an exchange about this elsewhere and also share RAW files from different camera manufacturers. Until then, have a good time and let's continue to have fun with our photographic tools!

[don daniel]

vor 3 Stunden schrieb M11 for me:

Please take this with some humour. I am sure that you are used to discuss other views. Maybe I am fully wrong and I misunderstand the whole thing. I am very open. What I write here is just my personal experience with Leica and Canon and especially my recent experiences in the mountains (Q3 and M11 in Engelberg) and at ROCHE with Q3 an R5 yesterday. Maybe if we would work on my images in LR Classic together I would have to change my mind.

I just worked this whole Sunday on Canon and Q3 images taken yesterday. I like the result that I published. But you might think that its awful.

😁

I just had an eye on your gallery: I like your latest pictures of the Roche Towers (inside and outside)! But they were not taken with the M11. 😀

[HellDriver]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Am 26.10.2023 um 17:16 schrieb elmars:

You have to install the Leica Tethered plugin.

Doesn't work with LR Classic. Even with Tethered Plugin installed. 

You can release the shutter with LR. The M11 takes 6 pictures. But no data transfer to the directory on my MacBook. Any other experiences? Thanks.  

[Photoworks]

10 hours ago, HellDriver said:

Doesn't work with LR Classic. Even with Tethered Plugin installed. 

You can release the shutter with LR. The M11 takes 6 pictures. But no data transfer to the directory on my MacBook. Any other experiences? Thanks.  

LrC works when the camera is set to tether connection in USB.

there is only Live You in Capture one that I can find.

If the camera is set to PTP you trigger the camera, but there is no transfer to the computer.

I don't like it, but it is as designed.

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

[algrove]

Some recent menu changes the the M11 have lasting impacts for the better.

[SiggiGun]

Am 29.10.2023 um 16:03 schrieb don daniel:

We should not let Leica get away with a faulty white balance. I regularly see RAW files from various manufacturers, including Nikon, Canon, Fuji. I also have many RAW files from older M models and from the Q and Q2 on my computer. No other camera shows a pink fantasy world like the M11 (and the M11-P). I haven't resigned yet and believe that Leica doesn't want to make a fool of itself. The most correct white balance possible, both in the automatic setting and in the fixed settings, is absolutely essential for a reportage camera. In my opinion, authenticity of photography also refers to colour. 

100% agreed

[la1402]

15 minutes ago, SiggiGun said:

100% agreed

I fear it is a conscious decision. It is no HW limitation and they have smart enough engineers to fix it in FW. I believe they want that different look. 

[Photoworks]

On 10/29/2023 at 4:03 PM, don daniel said:

We should not let Leica get away with a faulty white balance. I regularly see RAW files from various manufacturers, including Nikon, Canon, Fuji. I also have many RAW files from older M models and from the Q and Q2 on my computer. No other camera shows a pink fantasy world like the M11 (and the M11-P). I haven't resigned yet and believe that Leica doesn't want to make a fool of itself. The most correct white balance possible, both in the automatic setting and in the fixed settings, is absolutely essential for a reportage camera. In my opinion, authenticity of photography also refers to colour. 

Call me crazy, but in my preferred DNG viewer and JPG, I don't see a pink dominant in my photos.

that is why I am always surprised when I see these comments.

What are you using? Lightroom?

[lct]

Some reddish tint is part of the DNG profile, apparently, same as the yellowish tint of the M240. Easy to adjust in PP if needed.

[don daniel]

I use Lightroom, but I always shoot DNG and JPG. And you can clearly see the magenta cast in both the DNGs and the JPGs from the camera. But I'd say: If you can't see it, you won't miss it when it's gone.

Edited October 30, 2023 by don daniel

[Tommi]

Is your monitor color calibrated?

[don daniel]

Yes, it is. Please, have a look at the comparison I posted above. If you do not see the magenta cast I cannot help you.

[HellDriver]

vor 12 Stunden schrieb Photoworks:

LrC works when the camera is set to tether connection in USB.

there is only Live You in Capture one that I can find.

If the camera is set to PTP you trigger the camera, but there is no transfer to the computer.

I don't like it, but it is as designed.

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

Thanks. My M11 was set to tether connection. I tried it several times. Also removed the LR Tether Plugin and reinstalled it. No improvement. Doesn‘t work correctly. 

[LBJ2]

1 hour ago, don daniel said:

Yes, it is. Please, have a look at the comparison I posted above. If you do not see the magenta cast I cannot help you.

The magenta cast is definitely a Lightroom M11 profile(s) characteristic. As I posted already, the LRC magenta cast disappears when I load the same M11 DNG into DXO PhotoLab. The main difference seems LRC seems to run the Tint settings very high for M11 profiles e.g., twenty-something, while DXOLab usually low single digit Tint setting. I also notice DXO PhotoLab loads a tiny bit lower Temperature settings too for the M11 profile. 

 

[don daniel]

vor einer Stunde schrieb LBJ2:

The magenta cast is definitely a Lightroom M11 profile(s) characteristic. As I posted already, the LRC magenta cast disappears when I load the same M11 DNG into DXO PhotoLab. 

 

Would you like to see some JPG samples out of camera? They suffer from magenta cast as well. Don't look at the numbers that are shown by the RAW converter. Look at the colours!

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[bcaslis]

No offense but why is anyone using the M11 profile in Lightroom? As stated, it's way too magenta. Red areas look purple. That was one of the first things I did when processing files in Lightroom was to switch profiles. After switching profiles I see no magenta problem with the M11 (I also used Nikon Z9, now Z8 for comparison).