Limited edition Noctilux-M 50 f/0.95 ASPH. “Titan”

[satijntje]

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Is there a Layer here who could tell us if this is legally ok what Leica is ausklingen?.
I know it is happening here in Germany with pieces of land to build a house.
Legally, the commune has always a right to buy it with priority to avoid speculation. 

[IkarusJohn]

40 minutes ago, satijntje said:

Is there a Layer here who could tell us if this is legally ok what Leica is ausklingen?.
I know it is happening here in Germany with pieces of land to build a house.
Legally, the commune has always a right to buy it with priority to avoid speculation. 

We don’t actually know what they’re asking, but:

• a right of first refusal / pre-emption can be enforceable in most countries, and
• generally, a penalty for breach, provided it’s to protect a legitimate right, can also be enforceable

Without seeing the NDA, and knowing where it is to be enforced, it’s all largely guesswork.

What we can say with certainty, though, is that there is an expectation between Leica and the buyers of the lens, that it will not be flicked during the first two years, where there is likely to be hot demand.  What that means is that Leica has priced the lens, and they don’t want traders (scalpers) to capture the margin during that period - they want the lens to go to genuine Leica enthusiasts, and if it is to be sold, they want to be able to pass the lens on to others who may have missed out.

There are obvious problems with this, first how would Leica find out the lens has been sold? And what would they do about it?  My guess is, not much.  If they found out, the buyer might find themselves off any list of future buyers of limited editions - even that would be problematic.

Legally, an argument could be raised that any super-profit made from such a stagged sale could be recovered by Leica.  That would be an interesting argument.

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[Jeff S]

NDA? What can’t be disclosed?  Seems like a purchase agreement, the terms of which aren’t clear.  And if one can in fact purchase the product without signing an agreement (Steven), how meaningful is it?  Very confusing.

Jeff

[IkarusJohn]

1 hour ago, Jeff S said:

NDA? What can’t be disclosed?  Seems like a purchase agreement, the terms of which aren’t clear.  And if one can in fact purchase the product without signing an agreement (Steven), how meaningful is it?  Very confusing.

Jeff

Who knows?

[Jeff S]

I haven’t read anything that would characterize this agreement as an NDA. Seems about sale provisions, whatever that might entail, not confidentiality. 
 

Jeff

 

[Al Brown]

Leica has established a special branch of LeitzPolizei that will secretly infiltrate both major Leica auctions and other high end second hand marketplaces. Helmut will scan ebay and Hans Dieter will browse the Kleinanzeigen classifieds. Helga is running through this forum as we speak and Fritz is following all major players including all Asian dealers on Instagram. Nobody will escape the prudent eye 👁️ of LeitzPolizei, no titan noctilux will exchange hands unnoticed (except Steven’s 😊). Jawohl!!

Edited September 17, 2023 by Al Brown

[Ouroboros]

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This ridiculous restriction reminds of the free 12-month LFI subscription that came with my new Leica MP around 2005.  When the 12 months was up I was sent  an invoice for a further 12 months subscription and continued to receive copies of LFI that I did not want despite my contacting LFI with a request to stop sending the magazine as I regarded it as unwanted junk mail.

After a few months of continued deliveries of LFI and reminders that payment was overdue I received a letter from LFI threatening 'Court Action' for non payment of their invoice. 

Yeah, right!

Eventually LFI apologised for their 'error'.

I'm no legal expert, but I cannot see how or why Leica would attach such an ill-considered condition to a purchase, let alone attempt to enforce it.  Surely they would do far better putting resources into a review of their QC processes, for example. 

 

   

[Simone_DF]

13 hours ago, IkarusJohn said:

We don’t actually know what they’re asking, but:

• a right of first refusal / pre-emption can be enforceable in most countries, and
• generally, a penalty for breach, provided it’s to protect a legitimate right, can also be enforceable

Without seeing the NDA, and knowing where it is to be enforced, it’s all largely guesswork.

What we can say with certainty, though, is that there is an expectation between Leica and the buyers of the lens, that it will not be flicked during the first two years, where there is likely to be hot demand.  What that means is that Leica has priced the lens, and they don’t want traders (scalpers) to capture the margin during that period - they want the lens to go to genuine Leica enthusiasts, and if it is to be sold, they want to be able to pass the lens on to others who may have missed out.

There are obvious problems with this, first how would Leica find out the lens has been sold? And what would they do about it?  My guess is, not much.  If they found out, the buyer might find themselves off any list of future buyers of limited editions - even that would be problematic.

Legally, an argument could be raised that any super-profit made from such a stagged sale could be recovered by Leica.  That would be an interesting argument.

I guess it depends in which country you are based in: https://smallbiztrends.com/2013/03/resale-rights-you-bought-own.html

[Huss]

In California the Song-Beverly Consumer Act aka Lemon Law stipulates that a mfg has 30 consecutive business days to resolve an issue.  It applies to numerous products, not just vehicles.  If they cannot repair w/in 30 consecutive business days, they must refund or exchange for like.

It seems perhaps it is time for California buyers to flex that and watch Leica change their attitude to providing shoddy equipment.

[Pierre68]

Incredible... This lens isn't out yet and already 4 pages of blah blah blah.....

[RMF]

5 minutes ago, Pierre68 said:

Incredible... This lens isn't out yet and already 4 pages of blah blah blah.....

Isn’t out? …  they are all ready long gone or all ready spoken for (before they even came out 🙂 )

 

 

 

.

Edited September 17, 2023 by RMF

[Al Brown]

Yup, first fully sold out and then announced to the peasants.