Leica 28mm Elmarit-M 11606 - is a lens hood necessary? Plus any comparison with Color Skopar Type II?

[kuchars22]

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Hello,

I don't tend to like using lens hoods, only for protection if I know it's going to be a bumpy ride (like this vacation riding on a camel!). Does the 11606 really need a lens hood? The default plastic one looks too big for my liking. I've got a Summicron 50mm v4 (built in hood) and VC Nokton 35mm 1.4 v2 and both are not using hoods most of the time, though I don't tend to shoot into the sun a lot. Does it flare like the 90 tele-elmarit?

Also, any comparisons yet with the newest VC Color Skopar 28mm 2.8 Type II ASPH?

Thanks

[250swb]

If you shoot into the sun a lens hood won’t save you anyway, but it’s useful if life manifests itself a few degrees off axis from the sun. 

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[kuchars22]

4 minutes ago, 250swb said:

If you shoot into the sun a lens hood won’t save you anyway, but it’s useful if life manifests itself a few degrees off axis from the sun. 

Thanks. Just considering whether I should buy one without a hood (cheaper) or it’s just an expensive and unnecessary ornament, or if it really is a must have for this lens

[a.noctilux]

Hood is useful if mounted on the lens.

While the hood is too ugly or too big like in/on most wide angle lenses, it's useless when not on lens..

When I use my Elmarit-M asph. 28mm, the flare is under control ( framing with care ) no hood is necessary.

This 11606 is mostly not flarey with small front lens element and effective coating.

[lct]

The hood is a must if you intend to use a filter. It is the effective 12526 hood, déjà vu on the Summicron 35/2 asph v1, also on the Summicron 35/2 v4 with different nubs (12524).

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[kuchars22]

10 minutes ago, lct said:

The hood is a must if you intend to use a filter. It is the effective 12526 hood, déjà vu on the Summicron 35/2 asph v1, also on the Summicron 35/2 v4 with different nubs (12524).

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Why must you use it with a filter, I plan to only use a UV?

[lct]

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22 minutes ago, kuchars22 said:

Why must you use it with a filter, I plan to only use a UV?

You don't have to use the lens with a filter but if you happen to use a filter, UV or not, it can cause flare if you don't make some shade with a hood or otherwise.

[kuchars22]

8 hours ago, lct said:

You don't have to use the lens with a filter but if you happen to use a filter, UV or not, it can cause flare if you don't make some shade with a hood or otherwise.

Ok, I didn’t realise that. I came back from a hot and bright Tunisian vacation with uv filter and no hood, mostly high noon-style sun position with mixture of lower sun, but not experienced any flare, 100% useable photos. In fact, I’ve done the same for 150 weddings (on Canon DSLRs) in the past 12 years without issue. I don’t doubt what you say, but I’m now only a photographer for my own personal pleasure so not critical for me. The only time I’ve had a problem was with a 90mm tele-elmarit, even with decent coatings still intact on the element, but wouldn’t expect the 11606 to do the same (the reason for asking in this post)?

[lct]

I would never use a filter sans hood, just 40+ years experience, but it's me. Anyway i own both these lenses and the Elmarit 28/2.8 asph v1 is indeed significantly less prone to flare than the Tele-Elmarit "thin" 90/2.8.

[lct]

Elmarit 21/2.8 asph v1 with and w/o hood. Sun on top, just outside the frame. Both with UV/IR filter (no UV filter on hand sorry). Just 2 snaps handheld, nothing scientific.

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[kuchars22]

So without UV/IR filter, with and without hood, how does this compare?

[lct]

14 minutes ago, kuchars22 said:

So without UV/IR filter, with and without hood, how does this compare?

I would have to do a side by side comparo to be sure but hoods are made for a purpose so you would get more flare sans hood anyway. Now perhaps you never shoot into the light, which could explain that you never experienced any flare in 12 years ?

[kuchars22]

1 minute ago, lct said:

I would have to do a side by side comparo to be sure but hoods are made for a purpose so you would get more flare sans hood anyway. Now perhaps you never shoot into the light, which could explain that you never experienced any flare in 12 years ?

Shooting into the light (back lighting) is part and parcel of controlled wedding portraiture, which I did do, and was accepted as artistry, but then leant towards photojournalism and you learn to manage flared situations to improve contrast, as portraiture wasn’t a focus in this style, by avoiding it. In those times, massive canon lens hoods were just annoying and I found that it wasn’t really necessary majority of the time and had no ill effect. That said, it’s general physics that any optics is compromised shooting into the light, so I’m more concerned with stray or exceptional light even when trying to avoid it. 

£160 or thereabouts for a plastic lens hood seems OTT for a situation that I rarely get into, fair enough if I still owned the 90mm, which is why I sold it so I don’t need to worry about flare or a hood  

It sounds like the general consensus is that the 11606 has not much to worry about in the respective of stray light flare, unless pointing straight at the source, which is then the same behaviour for pretty much most lenses. 

As for must using a hood with filter, I’m afraid I don’t buy it and the differences are negligible for me, maybe in a controlled lab experiment but I’m only a personal lifestyle shooter now.
 

 

[kuchars22]

38 minutes ago, lct said:

I would have to do a side by side comparo to be sure but hoods are made for a purpose so you would get more flare sans hood anyway. Now perhaps you never shoot into the light, which could explain that you never experienced any flare in 12 years ?

If you could do the test that would be great to support your evidence. You said you must use a hood with any filter, but now you say you need to do a comparison to be sure. So you are doubting your own statement?  Not trying to pick a fight, but no one has quantified how much flare is created with a filter on with a hood. 

Hazard a guess that if I’ve used a hood with a filter and I don’t see any difference then the  hood hasn’t made any functional purpose other than aesthetics and money grabbing, if your statement is true. 

Edited September 9, 2023 by kuchars22
Typo

[lct]

Problem with many lenses, including Leica's, is when the sun or other strong light sources are outside the frame. Now you know what i think about this there's little i can do more for you

 

[250swb]

 

The best thing to do is pose in front of a mirror and rehearse how to carry off using a lens hood with conviction. It could be a particular stance, like a Zoolander pout, or a Monroe giggle. But either way it's a problem to overcome if all the $ that's been spent on a lens isn't going to be wasted by cutting corners.

[kuchars22]

35 minutes ago, 250swb said:

 

The best thing to do is pose in front of a mirror and rehearse how to carry off using a lens hood with conviction. It could be a particular stance, like a Zoolander pout, or a Monroe giggle. But either way it's a problem to overcome if all the $ that's been spent on a lens isn't going to be wasted by cutting corners.

Cutting corners? What like a supplied plastic hood?!

 

[lct]

The vented metal hood # 12504 is more expensive than the dedicated plastic hood but you may wish to look for a less expensive replica on eBaY. Some of them are well made but i never checked how effective they are to prevent flare on the Elmarit 28/2.8 asph v1 so far.

[kuchars22]

5 hours ago, lct said:

The vented metal hood # 12504 is more expensive than the dedicated plastic hood but you may wish to look for a less expensive replica on eBaY. Some of them are well made but i never checked how effective they are to prevent flare on the Elmarit 28/2.8 asph v1 so far.

The lens I am eyeing up is from a well established chain of stores in the U.K. and well under the usual used price, but comes with a Haoge hood. Both this and the Leica hood remind me of those mattebox hoods back in my filming days - I find them too big on an M system. The newer and smaller VC Color Skopar uses a simple cylindrical screw on hood about 10mm depth  Initial reviews are good for flare and compares well against Leica, and if the hood can be slim and short for this 28mm, I’m wondering why the Leica 28mm needs to be much bigger and wider. I guess the lens element arrangement has something to do with it  

 

 

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[lct]

The plastic hood you don't seem to like comes from the seventies and fits well its purpose for variants of it having equipped reputed lenses like Summicron 35/2 v4, Summicron 35/2 asph v1 and Elmarit 28/2.8 asph v1. The kind of vestigial hood you've been showing above is useless to prevent flare in my experience. Typical example is that of the Skopar 21/4 which flares a lot. Vented CV and ZM hoods are more efficient. They are similar to the 12504 i was referring to previously. I would look for a replica on eBay if you're on a budget. See this one for instance. It is made for the Summilux 35/1.4 pre-asph but should fit Summicrons 35/2 v4 and 35/2 asph v1 as well as the Elmarit 28/2.8 asph v1 we are discussing about. I don't know if it prevents flare as efficiently as the 12526 regular hood for this lens though.

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/ua8AAOSwWSBifbMC/s-l1600.jpg

Edited September 10, 2023 by lct