Q2/Q3 or Hasselblad X2D? Which do you choose?

[hdmesa]

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46 minutes ago, Al Brown said:

Sorry to crash your discussion party, just saw one or two of you (looking at you, @hdmesa and @Olaf_ZG) is about to bite the bullet and get the X2D. Just wanted to chip in with two (hopefully helpful) statements:
1. Hasselblad X2D is ABSOLUTELY FANTASTIC as a camera system, I had no problem whatsoever trading my GFX with 3 lenses and two M film bodies for the body & 3 lens setup. You will not know how fantastic this camera's UX/UI is until you have tried it. I am super picky about my cameras and can claim with confidence that there has not yet been a digital MF system as awesome to use as X2D. Mind you, NOT any of the X1D predecessors, NOT the fancypants midget 907 with no IBIS, but specifically the X2D. This camera barely needs any refreshments or improvement (although one can always find stuff).
2. Hasselblad X2D is ABSOLUTELY FANTASTIC as an accompanying partner to your digital M. These two have chemistry together like Bogart (Hassy) and Bergman (Leica) in Casablanca. They go EVERYWHERE with me, from Armenia to Zimbabwe, from Albuquerque to Zagreb. Even if I just had these two (I don't) my soul woul be fed and my photographic heart full.

Thank you, this is really helpful. Since I have absolutely no camera at the moment, I opted to first get an M11-D as it's both small and portable but still high resolution. But as a companion camera, the X2D does make a lot of sense. After several years time with the newer Leica menu systems and camera controls, it's really difficult to go back to a camera that isn't as intuitive as the Leica is and the Hasselblad appears to be.

Edited September 23, 2024 by hdmesa

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[SrMi]

45 minutes ago, Al Brown said:

Sorry to crash your discussion party, just saw one or two of you (looking at you, @hdmesa and @Olaf_ZG) is about to bite the bullet and get the X2D. Just wanted to chip in with two (hopefully helpful) statements:
1. Hasselblad X2D is ABSOLUTELY FANTASTIC as a camera system, I had no problem whatsoever trading my GFX with 3 lenses and two M film bodies for the body & 3 lens setup. You will not know how fantastic this camera's UX/UI is until you have tried it. I am super picky about my cameras and can claim with confidence that there has not yet been a digital MF system as awesome to use as X2D. Mind you, NOT any of the X1D predecessors, NOT the fancypants midget 907 with no IBIS, but specifically the X2D. This camera barely needs any refreshments or improvement (although one can always find stuff).
2. Hasselblad X2D is ABSOLUTELY FANTASTIC as an accompanying partner to your digital M. These two have chemistry together like Bogart (Hassy) and Bergman (Leica) in Casablanca. They go EVERYWHERE with me, from Armenia to Zimbabwe, from Albuquerque to Zagreb. Even if I just had these two (I don't) my soul woul be fed and my photographic heart full.

Do you cary Leica and X2D together on your trips? If so, do you overlap focal lengths for the two cameras?

[Overgaard]

3 hours ago, FlashGordonPhotography said:

Everyone should do what works for them. I use LRC because all my cameras are supported and I shoot with multiple systems. LRC makes sense as a place to start as I can start the same way no matter what camera I use. Others have different and equally valid approaches. Options are good.

Gordon

Phocus acturally now supports 150 camera now, including M11, M10, Q3 etc

… Not that it makes it easier to use, but i had waited for that for a long time.

[IkarusJohn]

2 hours ago, SrMi said:

Do you cary Leica and X2D together on your trips? If so, do you overlap focal lengths for the two cameras?

This is a good question.  I can see carrying the Monochrom and X2D.  At the moment, having only the 38V (30mm equivalent fov), I could see taking an M with the 21mm & 75mm Summiluxes.  In future, adding the 25V (19.75mm fov) and the 90V (71 fov) would obviate the need for either Summilux.  But then, field of view is only part of the picture - with the X2D and three V lenses, the Monochrom with the 35 & 50 APO Summicrons would provide a nice walk around alternative; or character lenses like the 28 Summaron, 50 Noctilux or 75 Summilux.

Meanwhile, I’d be missing a nice day out exploring while I futs about trying to decide which combination to take and switching lenses … I’ll stick with the X2D and 38V, I think!

[BWColor]

2 hours ago, IkarusJohn said:

This is a good question.  I can see carrying the Monochrom and X2D.  At the moment, having only the 38V.

Meanwhile, I’d be missing a nice day out exploring while I futs about trying to decide which combination to take and switching lenses … I’ll stick with the X2D and 38V, I think!

I only shoot street and vacation images.  My kit follows from my limited needs.  That said, the 38V is the perfect first lens and a Monochrom is the perfect second camera.  I only use the X2D when color makes the image, or in a heavy rain.

Edited September 24, 2024 by BWColor
Brevity

[FlashGordonPhotography]

9 hours ago, SrMi said:

Do you cary Leica and X2D together on your trips? If so, do you overlap focal lengths for the two cameras?

I carried both sets on one trip and I didn't use it all. So I try to not overlap.

Having said that the driving trip I'm on I have both an SL3 kit and X2D kit. But that's partly to test the 20-35 XCD-E and the 60-600 Sigma. I'm heading to Perth for A Leica photo *workshop* so I've got a full SL3 kit with me. If I use it it'll be the first Leica trip I've actually used a Leica camera. I must drive the Leica Australia Academei people nuts.. haha.

But now with the HB 20-35 and 35-75, I may take those and supplement it with a SL3 and 70-200 or 90-280 or something along those lines. That's what I'm going to try on this trip as I have my 90-280 with me (and 16-35, 14-24 and 24-90 but I'll mostly use those as a backup).

Currently as I drive I have a SL3 with 60-600 and X2D's with 20-35 and 35-75 on the passenger seat. And my Inspire 3 ready to go. So far really liking this set up.

Gordon

[summarity]

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Mine arrived today and first impressions are: very surprised by the ergonomics. It just feels lighter than the SL3, even though it isn't. You can just let your shooting hand hang and both your thumb and other fingers will naturally hold onto it. I also don't feel like I need an L bracket just to park my pinkie finger somewhere - which is the case with the SL3. Charging up now and will test in depth over the next 2 weeks.

Photos of unboxing, I got no 873/1000: https://imgur.com/a/hmmsjOO

 

Edited September 24, 2024 by summarity

[summarity]

I like the color, that's about it.

[cwcltd]

2 hours ago, summarity said:

I like the color, that's about it.

I just managed to get the one Earth Explorer that Robertwhite had in stock. For me it was the complete pack including a lens, filter and 2 batteries etc. plus the colour, of course.

[summarity]

1 hour ago, cwcltd said:

I just managed to get the one Earth Explorer that Robertwhite had in stock. For me it was the complete pack including a lens, filter and 2 batteries etc. plus the colour, of course.

Yes certainly having all accessories ready to go immediately was a big appeal.

[summarity]

Something nice I didn't know before: the X2D has basically three levels of autofocus/manual focus.

The first is full autofocus. Here one can enable automatic or manual face detection, and then also map a button to face vs. point priority (like on the SL3). Punch-in and manual focus override (DMF) are available, even when the lens clutch is not set to MF. No peaking though for DMF.

When you switch to manual focus using the camera menu (instead of the lens clutch), you still retain full autofocus, but only BBF. The shutter half press only does AEL, but both the AEL and AFL buttons on the back continue to work. So here, the only thing you're losing is face detection, but you're gaining focus peaking / focus rotation assist. Also, Touch AF (+Move) now triggers AF on touch release.

Then finally using the lens clutch, all AF functions are disabled. MF only, with the configured assistants.

This is very nice. It means, for me, there's no need to map a button to configure face detect on/off. I just use full auto when I want face detect and leave it turned on there, and otherwise use "soft MF", where I can still do BBF, which is my default for focusing anyway. All modes support DMF. This is very nicely implemented.

Something else I expected and works wonderfully is moving the AF point with the touchscreen while using the EVF. To be specific, this is about touching and dragging the AF point while the camera's up to your eye, where on release it focuses. I frequently use this on the Q2/3, and the X2D implementation is even better because it allows a custom screen region to be used for this.

Edited September 24, 2024 by summarity

[FlashGordonPhotography]

I have my explorer kit order in but don't expect it until sometime in October unfortunately. I always um an ah about the limited and reporter editions of Leica cameras like the Q but never bite the bullet. But it was an easy choice for this one. I love the camera and I'm seeing this as the *reporter edition* of the cameras I use most. I'll sell my original 55V and dual charger so there's less redundancy. K has indicated she might use one of my current bodies and a few of the lenses I use less often. I don't need it but so what.

At least I'll have a Q3 43 to play with in the mean time. First world problems and all that.

Gordon

[BWColor]

On 9/22/2024 at 5:19 PM, SrMi said:

However, that means that you are not applying any benefits for Phocus (color science, lens corrections) and are using Phocus only to compress the raw file. You could do this by importing to LrC and converting to DNG.

However, using Phocus to generate both FFF raw  and TIFF could make sense.

3FR    211.5MB

fff.       139.1

TIFF exported from Phocus.     611.4MB. Ouch!

The TIFF was a photo of my wife.  Today was her birthday. XCD 90mm v @f/2.5/Simple fill flash in front of the house.

X2D Adjusted in Phocus

Edited September 26, 2024 by BWColor
Added Link to TIFF image

[FlashGordonPhotography]

6 hours ago, BWColor said:

3FR    211.5MB

fff.       139.1

TIFF exported from Phocus.     611.4MB. Ouch!

The TIFF was a photo of my wife.  Today was her birthday. XCD 90mm v @f/2.5/Simple fill flash in front of the house.

X2D Adjusted in Phocus

Really nothing, compared to what the video boys deal with.

I have 32TB of working drives and 64GB x 2 (duplicated) for backups. I'm also learning to delete dud files so really file size isn't an issue. Some 8TB spinning drives cost less than a fast memory card. I see no reason not to have a few.

Gordon

[summarity]

Three images illustrating three things I like about the X2D so far. I've uploaded them to my server in full res (40 to 150 MB in size). They have been developed with DxO, since it has native support for 16bit RAWs and the required optics modules for all XCD lenses (not yet for the new 20-35), which also unlocks DeepPRIME XD2 support. They've been exported to sRGB JPEGs, down converted from DxO Wide Gamut using 50% color preservation (this matches Phocus in L*RGB mode).

• Pier - shows the great level of detail, you can see items on the balcony of houses on the far end of the lake
• Bridge - shows the great image stabilization, this is 1/3 of second with the 55V, still tack sharp, also CA corrects very well (not that there's much to begin with)
• Trees - shows what an image at 25,600 ISO looks like after development with DP-XD2 - you can still see some light noise at 100% zoom, but I'd call this usable. Certainly ISO up to 6,400 will come out essentially clean

[BWColor]

7 hours ago, FlashGordonPhotography said:

Really nothing, compared to what the video boys deal with.

I have 32TB of working drives and 64GB x 2 (duplicated) for backups. I'm also learning to delete dud files so really file size isn't an issue. Some 8TB spinning drives cost less than a fast memory card. I see no reason not to have a few.

Gordon

 Gordon:

I want to understand what you are doing because I do think there is an advantage to processing in Phocus.  I’m particularly interested in why the use of hard drives vs SSD isn’t slowing your image processing/cataloging.

I have 118TB of network servers, 7TB of SSD  “working drives” and many retired USB raid boxes from years of video processing.  I found that the SSD greatly sped up processing/cataloging with Lightroom Classic/Photoshop.

What programs other than Phocus are you using and why isn’t the use of hard drives slowing your workflow?  I appreciate your experience...

[FlashGordonPhotography]

7 hours ago, BWColor said:

 Gordon:

I want to understand what you are doing because I do think there is an advantage to processing in Phocus.  I’m particularly interested in why the use of hard drives vs SSD isn’t slowing your image processing/cataloging.

I have 118TB of network servers, 7TB of SSD  “working drives” and many retired USB raid boxes from years of video processing.  I found that the SSD greatly sped up processing/cataloging with Lightroom Classic/Photoshop.

What programs other than Phocus are you using and why isn’t the use of hard drives slowing your workflow?  I appreciate your experience...

I should sometimes be more clear.

I do use SSD's for my normal workflow. I have 4TB on my MBP (plus a 4TB backup when travelling) and 32TB as desktop working drives. The spinning drives I have are for archiving. I have two sets of twin 24TB drives in a raid 0 for speed (48TB x 2).

I copy files off the camera manually and only import into LRC. Except for my M11's which, stupidly, don't have a mass storage mode! I have my own storage file system I've used for 25 years.

I import everything into LRC and make smart previews. This allows offline access to my entire catalogue of *keepers*.

All the basic sorting, tagging, keywording and ratings are done in LRC. I'll cull faulty files and delete from disk. I do a quick rating including files I don't like tagged as rejects.

I'll go through and delete files I definitely don't want. Duplicates etc. Then I archive the rest to the two archive raid systems. Overall around 50% of my files might be deleted. The rest I keep forever. I now copy the remaining files to the two archive drives and do a copy verify. Then the archive drives are disconnected from the system physically. One is kept in a different site.

At this stage I have 4/5 sets of files. (MBP, backup, SSD's and archive plus maybe cards.) I delete the cards and MBP versions of the originals. I work from the SSD's OR the smart previews I created earlier. Now I use LRC to cull quite hard to my *keepers*. After this maybe 10-20% of the files remain but I can go grab a file(s) from my now disconnected archive drives. All the culling and file management is done through LRC, so I know where everything is and I have access to smaller versions of my catalogue files anywhere.

If I find a file I think will benefit from Phocus I use LRC to open that raw file in Phocus and send the processed TIFF back to LRC. I'll stack these two files. For higher ISO files I may do this process in DXO instead of Phocus. Sometimes I do both just to compare. I might also send a file to Photoshop. This is getting more rare as LRC improves.

Then I'll process in LRC including masking and stitching.

Sometimes I do things out of order but this is basically it. I'm not interested in putting 2000 files through Phocus after a trip. *Maybe* a few dozen see Phocus or DXO.

Except for the Phocus part I have EXACTLY the same workflow for every camera I own. On cameras that I can I change the first letters of the filename to make file handling easier.

Gordon

[BWColor]

@Gordon

All makes sense now. I follow much the same workflow, but I still use Photoshop mostly for sharpening.  Of course, that also imposes the large TIFF file size.

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[tom0511]

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Edited September 27, 2024 by tom0511
double post

[howiebrou]

I just sold my M10-P Safari because it just wasn't getting much use, eyes getting tired etc. Now I need to consider what to do with my M lenses. My initial thought is SL3 as I used to use the M lenses on a SL and it worked great. But looking at the SL3 made me look wider and come across the X2D. Wow. It is a lot more comfortable to hold than a SL3 imho. I should get mine in November and will try the M lenses with adaptor on it then and see if it works okay although the shop had a M lens to try with the demo. I guess there must be quite a few Leica shooters crossing the pond. If it works I won't need the SL3 which is good then all I need to do is pack a m lens or two together with the X2D lenses instead of carrying an extra body. Time will tell.