Focal length or cropping?

[hepcat]

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This is a most fascinating discussion.   I've read the entire thing.  I don't understand the controversy.  What difference does any of this make... cropped or full-frame, digital or film?   I can't ever recall looking at an image and wondering whether or not it was full-frame or cropped.  I've seen lots of images that would have been significantly stronger HAD they been cropped, but none that made me wonder if they'd be a stronger image if they hadn't.
 
Our cameras and lenses are merely tools to capture what we see in our mind's eye at that moment.  Different focal length lenses are made for different purposes.  Having the ability to previsualize a scene in your head with different focal lengths and knowing what lens to choose on the image format you're using for its particular optical performance is what maturing into photography is about.  Why in the world anyone would limit themselves to a single wide angle lens and try to crop to suit is beyond my comprehension, regardless of the resolution of the sensor or size of the negative.  

The bottom line is that it's all about the image and making the best image possible, the way YOU want it to display,  with the equipment you have available.  Everything is fair game, and it's all good if the resulting image is good.

[pgk]

4 hours ago, hepcat said:

Our cameras and lenses are merely tools to capture what we see in our mind's eye at that moment.  Different focal length lenses are made for different purposes.

Well when I next see the Olympics I will no doubt see that all the photographers are carrying Q3 cameras and cropping😆. So what exactly are the purposes of different lenses?

Oddly enough I was talking to a photographer friend yesterday who was tellling me about someone he knows who has just moved up the medium forat digital in order to have a more versatile system which can be cropped heavily. Apparently (and to me unsurprisingly), this has not been a runaway success.

Edited June 2, 2023 by pgk

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[Ouroboros]

4 hours ago, hepcat said:

…Different focal length lenses are made for different purposes.  Having the ability to previsualize a scene in your head with different focal lengths and knowing what lens to choose on the image format you're using for its particular optical performance is what maturing into photography is about.  Why in the world anyone would limit themselves to a single wide angle lens and try to crop to suit is beyond my comprehension, regardless of the resolution of the sensor or size of the negative

For the kind of camera owner who has no ambition with their images other than to chase ‘Likes’ on social media and forums, having only one lens must be a clear winner when it comes to saving money.

At the start of this thread, I said the concept of cropping to emulate a different focal length lens (which was the main point of the thread, not ‘cropping’ per se) is an alien one to me.

It still is.

[Storm Chaser]

So much pure'ism on here  😉 I have absolutely no problem with cropping to suit the image you are after. I do it regularly. I dont feel obliged to tie myself to what I am only able to compose through distance and the viewfinder. And i more mp helps with the crop, then great.  

However, the OP's dilemma is because he is on his travels. Now, for me, travelling means answering the fundamental question - am I here as a photographer or here on vacation to enjoy myself (maybe with my partner) and the photography happens if I can get time and agreement from my partner

If the latter, then 1 lens is absolutely fine and what lens you choose is up to you.

If the former, then multiple lenses are fine - just dont forget to relax and enjoy the scenery with your eyes and mind and feelings as opposed to your lenses.

[IkarusJohn]

59 minutes ago, Storm Chaser said:

… I have absolutely no problem with cropping to suit the image you are after. I do it regularly ...

And I’m very happy for you.

No dilemma on my part.  It was simply an observation.

[Ouroboros]

 

1 hour ago, Storm Chaser said:

So much pure'ism (sic) on here  😉  

So much misunderstanding the main point of the thread on here.

[pgk]

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1 hour ago, Storm Chaser said:

So much pure'ism on here  😉

Its interesting that Leica, makers of the M system, which is by far the most 'purest' of interchangable lens camera systems still available, should also make the fixed lens Q cameras with their crop features. Perhaps we are seeing a divergence between a more traditional approach to photography, and a somewhat looser way of thinking? I suspect that these two differing approaches are best (but not exclusively) suited to different genres and output media.

[lct]

17 minutes ago, pgk said:

[...] I suspect that these two differing approaches are best (but not exclusively) suited to different genres and output media [...]

Different psychologies too. Only the result counts vs only my contentment counts and result is only a part of it.

[pgk]

2 minutes ago, lct said:

Different psychologies too. Only the result counts vs only my contentment counts and result is only a part of it.

You have a good point. I enjoy taking photos as well as producing a result which I am satisfied with as a result of my efforts. Part of this is certainly compsing 'in the field' as well as I am able and using the lenses I like to do so. If others like the images then so be it, but I no longer aim to satisfy others primarily. I don't and won't own a Q ......

[Kwesi]

1 hour ago, pgk said:

Its interesting that Leica, makers of the M system, which is by far the most 'purest' of interchangable lens camera systems still available, should also make the fixed lens Q cameras with their crop features. Perhaps we are seeing a divergence between a more traditional approach to photography, and a somewhat looser way of thinking? I suspect that these two differing approaches are best (but not exclusively) suited to different genres and output media.

Leica’s promoting of the cropping aids built into the Q cameras is as much about marketing as anything else. It’s mostly to help assuage the fear that a fixed Len’s will be too restrictive. Leica also knows that the Q is an entry into the M system for many new Leica users. We see this trend here on the forums quite often with newcomers to the M system. 
 

[Jeff S]

Much ado about nothing for me. But not surprising on a gear oriented forum. A genuinely good photographer will generally make wonderful pics regardless of, even in spite of, the gear or shooting approach. Crop or no crop; one lens or 50 lenses; prime or zoom; brand used, etc….I couldn’t care less.  The work either resonates or not.
 

Each photographer is of course entitled to his/her own approach and philosophy, but that’s a personal matter for them, not a stumbling block for me. My approach varies based on circumstances; getting the pic is paramount. And making prints introduces myriad other beliefs and approaches.

Carry on.

Jeff

[lct]

Hunters vs Cooks
« Actually, I'm not all that interested in the subject of photography. Once the picture is in the box, I'm not all that interested in what happens next. Hunters, after all, aren't cooks »
Henri Cartier-Bresson 

[Jeff S]

Funny, he sure spent a lot of time with printers, book publishers, etc, after all that hunting.  
 

In a restaurant, I care about how the food might have been hunted or cooked, as that could impact the environment, my health, etc. In a gallery, I care about the end product - the body of work - I don’t care how the pictures were hunted OR cooked. Especially not stories about how hard it was to get a pic.
 

As for my own work, I do all the hunting, cooking and serving. But I like to vary the meals and methods to yield the desired result.

Jeff

[Photoworks]

6 hours ago, pgk said:

Its interesting that Leica, makers of the M system, which is by far the most 'purest' of interchangable lens camera systems still available, should also make the fixed lens Q cameras with their crop features. Perhaps we are seeing a divergence between a more traditional approach to photography, and a somewhat looser way of thinking? I suspect that these two differing approaches are best (but not exclusively) suited to different genres and output media.

we just need more M zoom lenses that can solve the cropping issue. One lens for light travel and a happy partner.

[pgh]

I use the lens I want to render the picture I want. Almost always a 35 and a 50, though I often just bring the 50 on the body and that is it. I do not enjoy coming to an image through cropping. For me, it is not part of the process of making. I even avoid fixing a horizon most of the time. 

That's just me. 

I could care less how others arrive at a (strong) image. It doesn't matter, and if the image doesn't hold something for me to see in its surface, while presented as intended from the photographer, in the appropriate context then it does not matter to me at all how difficult it was to make or how photographically "pure" the approach was. The only way I care about these things is if the photographer seems to think the image derives meaning from this. Most of the time I think they're wrong, but occasionally - like maybe one in a thousand times for my viewing - they're right, and I will take it into consideration. 

[Olaf_ZG]

5 hours ago, Kwesi said:

Leica also knows that the Q is an entry into the M system for many new Leica users. We see this trend here on the forums quite often with newcomers to the M system. 
 

Guilty as charged.

[M11 for me]

Two thing come into my mind when reading this interesting thread:

1) I want to have light equipment and therefore before going out I think of which lens to put onto my M camera. Very often its the 28 and thats then the only lens that I take along. In winter when I have thick coats on I do not like to carry an additional bag for additional lenses so my 28mm has to do for my excursion (I go out with my camera almost every day). Now that I have only one lens this lens has to do. I like to use crop framelines that I can see in the Visoflex2. I then take pictures either directly croped in camera or I take them full frame with the intention of croping later.

2) Many here seem to be able to "see" the final image before the photograph has ever been taken. I do not belong to those. Unfortunately. I have to work to find the "right" perspective. Later in Lightroom classic I delete many of my images because I do not like them or you can say: They did not work. So it is not so much important to have the right lens as most of my images do not work anyway and I do not know this beforehand. So what would have been the right lens? What I do in post is I crop and try to find the right part of the original full frame. So I am actually not unhappy that I had only one lens with me during my excursion. Once the weather will get warmer I might again be out with my hip bag with additional 2 or 3 lenses. Yes, it gives me more pleasure. But my main point here is that unlike others posting here I do not see the final image before it ever has been shot. I take many different shots from the same sceene with different perspectives and I look in lightroom which one works. Most pictures I delete and I keep the ones I like. For me they "work" but actually others will have to judge . . .