Jono Slack Review: Leica M11 Monochrome

[Jeff S]

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6 minutes ago, jonoslack said:

 . . . hey though, this is no kind of deal breaker in any sense, and the advantages of the M11 are many and various!

 

I call them differences, not necessarily advantages!  The M10 M user experience and output already satisfies my needs. Sometimes less is more, but it’s hard for a company to adhere to that philosophy when specs and features sell gear, especially in a declining industry.

Jeff 

[Olaf_ZG]

@Jeff S @jonoslack yet the original mm has such a wonderful sound… still indoubt if it is worth to sell it or not…

[Jeff S]

12 minutes ago, Olaf_ZG said:

@Jeff S @jonoslack yet the original mm has such a wonderful sound… still indoubt if it is worth to sell it or not…

Still have mine, despite the horrible re-cock noise. No camera is perfect.

Jeff

[pgh]

On 4/14/2023 at 4:04 PM, jonoslack said:

I understand what you're saying, but I don't agree. If you are a self employed long distance lorry driver, then the cost of a lorry dwarfs the price of Leica cameras. If you're good at your job then the cost of these cameras really isn't the killer factor. 

Oof. I appreciate the work in your review (and past ones), but this just isn't the case. Not in photography. I personally know multiple people who are "good at their job" enough to get consistent calls from the news publications any number of us here might read daily, and the cost of these cameras is absolutely a killer factor for almost all of them. 

[jonoslack]

2 hours ago, pgh said:

Oof. I appreciate the work in your review (and past ones), but this just isn't the case. Not in photography. I personally know multiple people who are "good at their job" enough to get consistent calls from the news publications any number of us here might read daily, and the cost of these cameras is absolutely a killer factor for almost all of them. 

I hear what you are saying, and I know that you are right that professional photography is not the trade that it was  - but still there are lots of professionals I know personally who can afford theses cameras (or a Sony A1, or a Canon EOS 1Dx III or a Nikon D6). If it's any consolation, I can't afford an M11Mono, and mine will go back in a couple of weeks. . . . but there are plenty of professionals who can

[S Maclean]

Thank you for the review.

 

I love my M11, and I thought I'd jump on the M11M as soon as it came out.  Now it's out, and I have doubts.  The M11 is giving me amazing images for my level of photography, and I have an X2d to scratch the itch for high res and image quality further.  But my temperament always makes me want to have the best option.  Your comment of the M11M rendering at the level of a medium format 100 MP is agonizing, as that is exactly what I love about the X2D.

 

Anyway. The decision is hard to make but I am not quite jumping on it yet.  Maybe when I sell a couple of lenses.

 

Thank you.

[Jeff S]

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2 hours ago, S Maclean said:

Thank you for the review.

 

I love my M11, and I thought I'd jump on the M11M as soon as it came out.  Now it's out, and I have doubts.  The M11 is giving me amazing images for my level of photography, and I have an X2d to scratch the itch for high res and image quality further.  But my temperament always makes me want to have the best option.  Your comment of the M11M rendering at the level of a medium format 100 MP is agonizing, as that is exactly what I love about the X2D.

 

Anyway. The decision is hard to make but I am not quite jumping on it yet.  Maybe when I sell a couple of lenses.

 

Thank you.

A trade off to consider is that, unlike the M11,  the Monochrom will not allow the use of color channels in PP, which could provide subtle tonality enhancements for the discerning print maker.

Jeff

[hdmesa]

6 hours ago, jonoslack said:

I hear what you are saying, and I know that you are right that professional photography is not the trade that it was  - but still there are lots of professionals I know personally who can afford theses cameras (or a Sony A1, or a Canon EOS 1Dx III or a Nikon D6). If it's any consolation, I can't afford an M11Mono, and mine will go back in a couple of weeks. . . . but there are plenty of professionals who can

The cost of a new M digital body approaching $10K USD may change buying behavior more than the increases that happened from $5K-8K. Even for those that can afford this camera, the thought of spending that much money on what is essentially an exhaustible resource may have reached a psychological barrier. Buyers that previously upgraded with every new M body may start sitting the next one out. Buyers that kept their bodies for two or more cycles may not upgrade until forced to by some irreparable failure or damage.

But more likely, I think this price point is finally going to allow a third party like Voigtlander to manufacture an M-mount mirrorless EVF camera for half the price. Or perhaps the strategy on Leica's part is to allow Panasonic to step into that gap.

I don't know if passing the $9K USD mark is necessarily bad news, though. We spend way too much time thinking about the next new thing.

I do hope Leica produces at least one lower-priced digital M edition – A stripped down M11-E with either the SL2-S or M10-R sensor, no internal memory, and the old shutter blade metering for $6.5-$7K.

 

[otto.f]

On 4/13/2023 at 3:01 PM, jonoslack said:

When the M9 Monochrom arrived it was pretty clear that the lack of a Bayer filter made a significant, visible and useful difference to the 18mp resolution of the M9 with the Bayer filter, perhaps twice as good resolution in real terms. 

Since that time processors have improved dramatically, allowing more sophisticated demosaicing routines to generate colour images, so the advantages of a Monochrom sensor are probably not quite so significant. Added to that, the M11 has 60mp, and even if the Monochrom represented a doubling in resolution, that might only be significant for very very large prints.

Wouldn’t this relative advantage for printed images not be different for a camera with image stabilization, like the SL2(S)? I’ve got the impression that B&W conversions from the SL2 are sometimes at least as sharp as shots from any Monochrom, if not sharper. 

[T25UFO]

11 hours ago, S Maclean said:

Anyway. The decision is hard to make but I am not quite jumping on it yet.  Maybe when I sell a couple of lenses.

Only ever sell cameras, never sell Leica glass 🙂

[MarkP]

11 hours ago, S Maclean said:

Thank you for the review.

 

I love my M11, and I thought I'd jump on the M11M as soon as it came out.  Now it's out, and I have doubts.  The M11 is giving me amazing images for my level of photography, and I have an X2d to scratch the itch for high res and image quality further.  But my temperament always makes me want to have the best option.  Your comment of the M11M rendering at the level of a medium format 100 MP is agonizing, as that is exactly what I love about the X2D.

 

Anyway. The decision is hard to make but I am not quite jumping on it yet.  Maybe when I sell a couple of lenses.

 

Thank you.

As I wrote earlier, Digital M camera bodies have a limited lifespan.  The lenses outlive us.  
I find it easier to justify the cost of an expensive M lens (maybe not a 75-Noctilux), than upgrading an M camera body.  I’ve sold maybe two Leica M lenses and when I did it was to upgrade (GAS).

 

Edited April 17, 2023 by MarkP

[IkarusJohn]

16 minutes ago, MarkP said:

As I wrote earlier, Digital M camera bodies have a limited lifespan.  The lenses outlive us.  
I find it easier to justify the cost of an expensive M lens (maybe not a 75-Noctilux), than upgrading an M camera body.  I’ve sold maybe two Leica M lenses and when I did it was to upgrade (GAS).

 

I agree. That said, I don’t regret selling the Leica M lenses I have sold. I wouldn’t re-purchase any of them. 

[Sjz]

I have both the M10M and the M11. 

For me, the only real advantage of the M11 over the M10M is the ability to swap over to the electronic shutter and shoot wide open in sunlight avoiding the pfaff of putting on a ND filter.  (And avoiding stacking filters if I want a yellow / orange filter on).

Undoubtedly if I did not have the M10M I would be very interested in the M11M and I look forward to reading the experiences of people moving from M10M to M11M.

 

Edited April 17, 2023 by Sjz

[S Maclean]

2 hours ago, T25UFO said:

Only ever sell cameras, never sell Leica glass 🙂

I understand the principle but…. I have a 50 app and a 50 lux. Do I need both?  I have a 21 SE and a 21 Lux, do I need both?  I have a 90 cron and a 75 CV… do I need both?

I also have a few others but the above are the redundant ones.

I can sell and consolidate. Maybe try to get a 2022 35 lux and 2023 50 lux.  I’d keep the 21 SE which is perfection as it is and easier to carry along than the lux, even though the 21 lux is a superior lens.

anyway, the 50 apo alone would pretty much get me a M11M 

[LocalHero1953]

I sell anything that doesn't get used, Leica or not. I've had more regrets from buying* than selling.

 

* Leica TL2: bought it 3 months before the CL was launched, which I preferred. Leica SL2: same scenario with respect to the SL2-S.

[Jeff S]

55 minutes ago, LocalHero1953 said:

I sell anything that doesn't get used, Leica or not.

This.  Leica lenses might hold value better than cameras, but I don’t treat photo gear as investments; there are far better options for that.  The “don’t sell a Leica lens” mantra doesn’t apply for me; rather it’s “don’t look back.”

Jeff

[LKY]

I own a M10M.  So far from what I have read the M11M does not seem to offer a big enough advantage over the M10M in terms of image quality to justify an upgrade.  Other electronic/mechanical improvements of the M11 platform are good but do not really matter much to me.

However, I have vintage and beloved wide angle lenses like Super Angulon 21/4, Super Angulon 21/3.4 and Elmarit 28/2.8 v1 that cannot be properly used on previous-generation M digitals due to their back elements intruding too deep into the camera and thus causing color shifts and metering issues.  I also have the Summicron 50/2 Dual-Range that cannot get into macro range on my M10M due to blockage by the metering mechanism. 

I believe M11 and M11M with BSI sensor as well as sensor-based metering solved or at least greatly mitigated all the above problems.  People seldom talk above these advantages of the M11 platform but they are the reasons I am in a dilemma of whether to upgrade from M10M to M11M.

[algrove]

Jono

UPS finally cooperated and I have my M11M. I am trying to assess which would be the best method as far as memory. From what I understand the IN memory is faster than an SD card, but I just cannot bring myself not to put an SD in this camera. If I go SD+IN is this slowing write speed considerably for a quick capture sequence? Trying to put DNG into IN and JPG into SD. but I only set up jpg in order to see B&W in EVF.

Also if using H/L weighted mode is it redundant to set clipping below 255 from your experience? I was thinking around 250 just to see what warnings it might send out. Yes, I hate this flashing, but better safe than sorry in the beginning.

Edited April 17, 2023 by algrove

[ymc226]

On 4/13/2023 at 5:12 PM, ymc226 said:

Was at Leica Los Angeles about an hour after opening today to pick up several silver UV filters.  Got to handle the M11M with the new silver 50 Lux and put my name on the list.  The lens seemed a little fatter than my version 1 ASPH but they could not find one in store for comparison.  Surprisingly, there was only one other customer in store who was trading in equipment; I would think there would be more coming in to look at the newly introduced products.

Just got a call from Leica Los Angeles that a M11 mono is available, 4 days from putting my name down.  Must not be in great demand.  Will pick it up tomorrow as it is late here already.  

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[jonoslack]

10 hours ago, algrove said:

Jono

UPS finally cooperated and I have my M11M. I am trying to assess which would be the best method as far as memory. From what I understand the IN memory is faster than an SD card, but I just cannot bring myself not to put an SD in this camera. If I go SD+IN is this slowing write speed considerably for a quick capture sequence? Trying to put DNG into IN and JPG into SD. but I only set up jpg in order to see B&W in EVF.

Also if using H/L weighted mode is it redundant to set clipping below 255 from your experience? I was thinking around 250 just to see what warnings it might send out. Yes, I hate this flashing, but better safe than sorry in the beginning.

Hi There

I shoot DNG only, with SD Card + Int (backup) seems safest and there doesn't seem to be any delay anywhere. You don't need to have jpg to see B&W in the EVF (that's just on the M11. I use highlight weighted or spot, but set the EV compensation to -1/3 or -2/3 to make sure there are no blown highlights (don't use the clipping warning). Exposure compensation is your friend (put it on the rear dial) and remember you can recover about 7 stops of under-exposure but no over-exposure!

Have Fun

best

Jono