SL3 Rumors

[Jon Warwick]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

4 hours ago, FlashGordonPhotography said:

 

As I print big and I really like the sensor in the A7R5/M11/Q3 etc. I'm excited for the SL3.

Same here, specifically with my experience of printing off the M11 sensor. I think using a similar sensor in a SL3, possibly combined with what I think is a clever and useable high resolution “pixel shift” mode (in the SLs to date), and with the SL primes, could be very compelling.

[CCC]

vor 5 Stunden schrieb trickness:

I personally like the look and feel of the SL2 - which was an ergonomic improvement from the SL, if not entirely an aesthetic one. This picture, if accurate, looks like a far less visually distinct camera, with a lot of plastic in the construction. I'm all for lighter weight until it starts looking and handling like a Japanese camera, because then why buy something with less features for more money?

Not really feeling this new design if it is accurate. We'll see I guess. 

Same for me: I never liked the design of the SL, (although I loved the 4 button layout) even a bit less the SL2 (although ergonomically clearly improved).

The SL3's design is becoming too close to the Panasonics and aesthetically very characterless and uninspired.    

I have the impression Leica is going too commercial here. They surely will gain new customers but that might also come at the cost of loosing others that are accustomed to a very refined and perfected camera body. R9/R10 and the S are such examples if we take out the unicorn M: they all are pure joy to hold and use. 

[CCC]

vor 58 Minuten schrieb Stuart Richardson:

I think professionals and people who used their cameras very frequently loved the customizable 4 button layout, but less frequent users were a bit lost

I coulnd't agree more than that. I used my SL day in day out and made a lot of money with it...

[FlashGordonPhotography]

2 hours ago, eab said:

Hi Gordon,

I am very interested in the testing you have done and agree with many of your assertions. I have a few questions I think you may be able to shed some light on.  Just for background I am a Lecia and Sony user.  I used to own the SL2 but most of my photography is travel and I almost never use a tripod.  As such I found that the bulk/weight of the SL2 and subpar autofocus compared to my Sony gear caused me to sell it.  I retained the 24-90 and 24-70 as I knew I would return to the SL system as I really loved the images.  I am planning on buying the 35 APO as it is my favorite FL and love the way it renders.  I am trying to put together a lightweight SL3 travel kit in hopes of leaving the Sony at home.  

  I was curious to know which of the Sigma lenses you ordered and why ( IQ or just favorite FL) ?  Any idea how they might compare to the 35 and 50mm summicron ASPH L mounts?  I am also looking for a really compact and light zoom for the SL3.  You mentioned the 20-60, have you had the opportunity to try the Sigma 28-70 f2.8 Contemporary?  Finally I know you went back and forth between the Sigma and the Leica on the 100-400, and landed on the Lecia I think.  I would really prefer to save some weight and use the Sigma but not at the cost of significant decrease in IQ, any further thoughts you might have on that subject would be appreciated.  Sorry for all the questions but I suspect you may some thoughts here.  

Here goes. Hope it helps.

1. The SL3 won't focus as well in AFC as the current Sony's, if the S5II and Q3 are anything to go by. But they'll be much improved. I see few places where they won't be good enough for me. It was already much better with the last firmware (many got out early and missed this) and AFS was basically the same speed. Also, the blackout time is not A1 speeds. The A1 is special because of it's sensor. I'll likely keep a small Sony kit based around the A1/200-600. I'm also keeping my A7CR and A7R5 but the SL3 will likely, mostly, replace the latter, I think. Time will tell.

2. I have ordered the 20 and 50 DGDN lenses and the new 500 f5.6. I have them in Sony mount already (plus the 85 but not the 500). They're as good as the SL Summicrons but not quite to the level of the APO Summicron SL's. They have aperture rings which is nice. They focus fast and are very sharp. I got these three because they're the closest to the FL's I like, except I might have got the 45 but it's not quite as sharp and it's a 2.8. It draws nicely though. I also ordered the Panasonic 100mm macro which I think should be versatile as a short tele. The Sigma 85 is very good but close to the 50. This spread is close to my X2D kit (28,55,90,135). I also have the 21, 28, 50 and 90 APO Summicron SL's. I know my likes for primes, mostly. In an ideal world it's a 20, 28, 45 and 100mm set so I go for as close to that as I can. I think this will be a great street set of lenses and travel as I'll save nearly a kilo. If I'm travelling without the zooms I'll take the APO Summicrons or a Hasselblad.

3.I have not tried either the 28-70 or the new 28-200. *For me*, I wanted a wide to standard zoom as a walkaround *city* zoom. I love the Sony 20-70 for this. The Panasonic isn't quite as good but it's decent. I'll add the 100mm Panasonic as an extra to get a bit more reach. I'll carry this in addition to my 24-90 not instead of. The 20-60 is purely for when I am not concentrating on photography in a new city but want a camera with me. Generally I expect my travel kit to be the 14-24, 24-90 and 100-400 plus a prime or two or an X2D. I'll swap out the 100-400 for the spectacular 90-280 and Sigma 500 for wildlife. 20-60 packed away for lazy days out city walking.

4. I have both the Sigma and Leica 100-400. Optically they are identical. I see it like this. The Leica is more like a *sport* version of the lens. Heavier but better build, sealing, etc. with the same optics. I'll likely carry the Leica because of the weather sealing and consistent filter size but the Sigma is the sensible choice. It's exactly the same performance (and colour) but noticeably lighter, for less money. Whatever you get check it because there's some sample variation.

Gordon

Edited February 28, 2024 by FlashGordonPhotography

[FlashGordonPhotography]

1 hour ago, Planetwide said:

I agree on the Canon 28-70mm F2.0, an amazing lens. Test the RF24-105mm F2.8, mine is better than my Leica 24-90mm...

A friend got one. It looks spectacular. And again, to squeeze that last 2% it's a BIG lens. The 24-70's from Canon and Sony are engineering marvels and very very good. But size has it's advantages.

Gordon

[JohnathanLovm]

5 hours ago, la1402 said:

Indeed, they are fairly compact for what they are. But you said "Most of the newer mirrorless Sigma lenses are as small as your average M lens" while in reality for most, there is still a significant size difference like here for one of the most compact like the 50mm/2.0 or the 45mm/2.8 vs the 50/2.5. The 90mm is the closest in total length witdth adapter, but still much wider. And they weigh more, even considering the adapter. Still good choices, anyway.

But that would bring me back to my old question - if I plan to buy Sigma lenses (or clones), what's the point to buy a Leica SL Body at such a premium? They do nothing that others can't. For me the main interesting aspect would be using M lenses.

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

I used M-lenses on my Sony A7 for 8 years, I can tell you that SL offered better user experience than others. Don’t believe me? Try FOTOapp with SL601 and compare with Nikon Z6 II’s Snapbridge. 

[Jeff S]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

3 hours ago, Stuart Richardson said:

Yes, unfortunately I think that was a casualty of "brand synergy". I think professionals and people who used their cameras very frequently loved the customizable 4 button layout, but less frequent users were a bit lost. That and the fact that they wanted it to fit in with the Q and M which at the time all had their buttons at the left. Now it is a bit chaotic again...the M and CL at left, the Q and SL at right and the S still with the 4 button. It's a bit sad, as the initial brief was a mini S, whereas now it seems more like a plussed up Q. I guess it makes sense for a marketing standpoint...they certainly sold a lot more Q's than S's! I am sure to be able to adjust after a bit, but it is not that fun to have to readjust every camera generation...especially when they got it right the first time.

The customizable 4 button control interface was born when Leica still had a working relationship with Phase. That design will presumably be fully ‘phased out’ if/when the S4 arrives.

Jeff

[gotium]

8 hours ago, Simone_DF said:

Two reasons: 

1. I like Sigma lenses. The other platform that has the Sigmas is Sony, a system I had in the past but never loved. Nikon and Canon marketed themselves out with their closed system.

2. I like Leica colors out of camera. It takes me very little in Lightroom to push the file where I want it. It took me significantly longer with the Sony. And time is precious to me, more than an extra 3000€.

Bonus:

3. Since I don't like the 60mp sensor due to its abysmal readout speed, I'm planning to get the S5II, which has pleasant colors to me, and while not as nice as Leica's, it's still better than Sony's colors. I may get a SL3-S if we'll ever see one in the future.

Note that Sony did something significant, to my eye, with the colors in the a7rV/a7cR platform. Particularly skin tones are finally to my liking, never were before with Sony. 

[gotium]

20 hours ago, Dr. G said:

That’s not an M, it’s the Q with the 40/50mm lens. 😉

you think they've changed the lens hood?

[Dr. G]

16 minutes ago, gotium said:

you think they've changed the lens hood?

Most of Leica's 50mm M lenses have round hoods.

Edited February 29, 2024 by Dr. G

[Dr. G]

1 hour ago, gotium said:

Note that Sony did something significant, to my eye, with the colors in the a7rV/a7cR platform. Particularly skin tones are finally to my liking, never were before with Sony. 

Interesting to hear.  One of the main reasons I left Sony for Leica was the color science.  It always took me forever to get the colors to my liking in post.  I know we’re on the Leica forum, but if they fixed the colors and release an RX1R iii or equivalent small fixed lens full frame camera, it may be tempting.  The image quality from the RX1R ii was great.  If they use their curved sensor they could shrink the lens and have a truly pocketable camera. 

[Pelu2010]

13 hours ago, trickness said:

I personally like the look and feel of the SL2 - which was an ergonomic improvement from the SL, if not entirely an aesthetic one. This picture, if accurate, looks like a far less visually distinct camera, with a lot of plastic in the construction. I'm all for lighter weight until it starts looking and handling like a Japanese camera, because then why buy something with less features for more money?

Not really feeling this new design if it is accurate. We'll see I guess. 

What plastic are you talking about. 
I think we are talking of a few grams not hundreds of grams. 
If the Kameras weight will be 100 grams less this will not influence the feel, but your arm will give you a feedback after a day of shooting. Let’s call it the Leica sl arm. 
cheers 

[helged]

1 hour ago, Pelu2010 said:

What plastic are you talking about. 
I think we are talking of a few grams not hundreds of grams. 
If the Kameras weight will be 100 grams less this will not influence the feel, but your arm will give you a feedback after a day of shooting. Let’s call it the Leica sl arm. 
cheers 

+1. Based on the many postings about the size and/or weight of the SL - I understand that I likely belong to a minority - but I actually prefer a modestly sized body (with some sort of grip) over a small body. And as a continuation of the above, I find the size of the SL APO's just perfect. Excellent balance, not too heavy. Yes, SL with 24-90 is on the heavy/large side, but SL and an APO is just fine. No problem at all.

Edited February 29, 2024 by helged

[LEGEND]

2 hours ago, Pelu2010 said:

What plastic are you talking about. 
I think we are talking of a few grams not hundreds of grams. 
If the Kameras weight will be 100 grams less this will not influence the feel, but your arm will give you a feedback after a day of shooting. Let’s call it the Leica sl arm. 
cheers 

Or SL sindrom ... 

When people ask what my right arm is larger then my left arm I say it is because my Leica SL uf course.
From what else could it be... Did't you see how big and heavy it is? 😁

Nikola

Edited February 29, 2024 by LEGEND

[TeleElmar135mm]

vor einer Stunde schrieb LEGEND:

(...)
From what else could it be...
 

May I guess

[la1402]

6 hours ago, gotium said:

Note that Sony did something significant, to my eye, with the colors in the a7rV/a7cR platform. Particularly skin tones are finally to my liking, never were before with Sony. 

Agree. Much better than in the past.

[LEGEND]

25 minutes ago, TeleElmar135mm said:

May I guess

I would't go there ... 😉 😄

[trickness]

4 hours ago, Pelu2010 said:

What plastic are you talking about. 
I think we are talking of a few grams not hundreds of grams. 
If the Kameras weight will be 100 grams less this will not influence the feel, but your arm will give you a feedback after a day of shooting. Let’s call it the Leica sl arm. 
cheers 

I’m talking about the feel of the camera relative to the SL2.

i shoot for 5-8 hours at a time (often with the 75 Nocti mounted) with the SL on the street and it’s never bothered my arm. Maybe if I had some kind of fragile bone syndrome, it would 

Edited February 29, 2024 by trickness

[Photoworks]

let's be clear. this shit is heavy!

we can all carry one camera + lens. But if you carry a backpack of cameras and lenses, the weight is significantly heavier than sony or canon.

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[padam]

1 hour ago, trickness said:

I’m talking about the feel of the camera relative to the SL2.

i shoot for 5-8 hours at a time (often with the 75 Nocti mounted) with the SL on the street and it’s never bothered my arm. Maybe if I had some kind of fragile bone syndrome, it would 

Apart from keeping the camera level and having more stability for video, there is no advantage to the weight. I don't even find the grip that great without a half case (still better than the original SL, that was bad). M lens designers go all the trouble to make them as small, light and compact as they can be. And then they are mounted on one of the biggest, heaviest mirrorless bodies out there. Great pairing. (Great IQ and EVF though)
I still wonder if the sensor in an SL3-S will be just phase-detect update, or something more serious (4k120p, etc.) for less, since that would already devaluate the older tech SL3.
I guess it will be another year to find out.