SL3 Rumors

[padam]

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5 hours ago, Simone_DF said:

I love how an underperforming AF now becomes a "want". Kind of like "it's not a bug, it's a feature".

Unsurprisingly, you can do the same with Canon etc., and limit the AF to your liking, but also blast it at full potential if you so wish.

That's the funny thing, I have a button to access that on Canon, but because I tend not to decouple the shutter button from focus, I've never used it, even though last time on a wedding, on a few occasions it might have been helpful to focus on one specific thing instead of getting confused amongst different moving targets in the frame. Of course I re-acquire, but the camera is still "too intelligent" to evaluate what's going on. I guess I could decrease sensitivity to switch subjects, but most of  the time I found it to work intelligently.
Just seems too much to have all at hand and risk switching things from a known, responsive way of usage, that - in theory - leaves me more keepers to choose from.

This is a "danger" I see with these "advanced" mirrorless cameras, all the power they have make them fiddly, more like a computer, less like a camera.
For instance, I don't see this mentioned anywhere else, but it is also a little odd that I see the camera locking on target changing to eye, whole subject etc. but I don't see the actual image cleanly as a whole (my mind is at least partially focused on whether the camera is locking on the closest eye or not).
While on an S 007 the experience is completely the opposite. I almost know in advance, that there is a high risk that the camera won't focus accurately, but the visibility of the image itself is clear. And the rangefinder is great, giving me some sort of feedback on focus while trying to 'distract' as little as possible. (When calibrated...)

While on a Leica I had limited AF, but most of the times it worked well, even with manually focusing I don't feel like missing out much, I could get better over time without having access to anything else (but I feel like they could make that a lot more seamless). Even if I shot film, my mind was "fully aware" of the limitations, "fully in the zone" of trying to compose, expose, and focus properly. Sometimes the difficulty was evaluating whether to risk firing or not - kind of hard, but at the same time very conscious decision. Having all that power in camera with an AF lens does actually make me a bit careless. (Also still hate culling and editing, feels like something that an AI might do better automatically.)

So yes, focusing is a limitation that I don't mind, and I do not think that I can just limit a more capable camera as it's simply the "same camera and more" (I also really don't get these recent trends  "don't get on the hype train of shooting film" they don't seem to understand practical differences either) because it is already set up in line with those capabilities, while the fixed screen drives me mad, but moving to an SL3 or SL3-S for that seems pointless. (For video, for stills I don't mind that it "incentivizes" me to use the EVF, I have a few vintage DSLRs without live view, I get along with them just fine (they fail sometimes, but still as good or better than my expectations), I can get low, no need to even think about video, but for that I have to be careful with how I move etc. it's not the same.)

To sum it up, my main gripe about the next SL - if it turns out as 'conservative' as I expect it to keep the existing pricing - is that for stils, the cameras are already "too good".
But for video, or as a complete stills and video hybrid, I might not get enough to compared to what's already here.
(Given up on hoping for a decrease in size and weight, not the end of the world, but it would make it way more desirable.)

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The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[FlashGordonPhotography]

A few things, having both the SL2 and Sony A1.

1. There’s no usable difference in IQ, resolution, DR or noise between them. I hav tested them side by side extensively (within the use case I use a camera) and there’s not real world difference. P2P is not a useful metric used in isolation. Nor is DXO. You are NOT going to get a better result from either camera. Functionality, handling, lens choice and technique are all that matters between them. The Sony has some significant advantages in shooting speed and AF. The SL2 has better IBIS and the APO Summicrons. It’s a wash. Personally I’d choose the Sony for Sports and Wildlife and the SL2 for landscapes and portraits. If you really want IQ a GFX100S is cheaper. And a 100II isn’t much more. Just don’t kid yourselves that your pictures will be better from one or the other.

2. Cutting edge tech is only useful if you need it. We’re long past the point where almost any camera can’t do a bit of everything. Yep. You can shoot great wildlife on and SL2. Or an M, if you don’t get eaten. Sony’s tracking focus IS better. But it’s likely more to do with the photographer than the camera if your cat photos aren’t in focus. It’s nice to have this stuff. But maybe it’s you that needs to improve. Not the camera.

3. We all have different needs/wants when it comes to gear. If you specialise in birds in flight then an A1 makes sense. If you just love stunning industrial design then an SL2 is the camera for you. People who make choices you wouldn’t make aren’t wrong. Just different. Different is good. We should encourage different.

4. No matter what happens it won’t be good enough for some. Either it’ll have the M11 sensor and people will bitch and moan about the slow readout speeds. Or it’ll have the A1 sensor and people will bitch and moan it doesn’t have Sony AF. Or it’ll have both and they’ll bitch it doesn’t have enough buttons, or too many. It’ll be too big. Too small. Too heavy. Too black. Not enough film simulations. FFS! Just don’t buy it. Bugger off and rave about the A9III you just got and we’ll go out and take pictures.

Gordon

Edited November 16, 2023 by FlashGordonPhotography

[SrMi]

3 hours ago, FlashGordonPhotography said:

A few things, having both the SL2 and Sony A1.

1. There’s no usable difference in IQ, resolution, DR or noise between them.

I can confirm that.

[trickness]

5 hours ago, FlashGordonPhotography said:

A few things, having both the SL2 and Sony A1.

1. There’s no usable difference in IQ, resolution, DR or noise between them. I hav tested them side by side extensively (within the use case I use a camera) and there’s not real world difference. P2P is not a useful metric used in isolation. Nor is DXO. You are NOT going to get a better result from either camera. Functionality, handling, lens choice and technique are all that matters between them. The Sony has some significant advantages in shooting speed and AF. The SL2 has better IBIS and the APO Summicrons. It’s a wash. Personally I’d choose the Sony for Sports and Wildlife and the SL2 for landscapes and portraits. If you really want IQ a GFX100S is cheaper. And a 100II isn’t much more. Just don’t kid yourselves that your pictures will be better from one or the other.

2. Cutting edge tech is only useful if you need it. We’re long past the point where almost any camera can’t do a bit of everything. Yep. You can shoot great wildlife on and SL2. Or an M, if you don’t get eaten. Sony’s tracking focus IS better. But it’s likely more to do with the photographer than the camera if your cat photos aren’t in focus. It’s nice to have this stuff. But maybe it’s you that needs to improve. Not the camera.

3. We all have different needs/wants when it comes to gear. If you specialise in birds in flight then an A1 makes sense. If you just love stunning industrial design then an SL2 is the camera for you. People who make choices you wouldn’t make aren’t wrong. Just different. Different is good. We should encourage different.

4. No matter what happens it won’t be good enough for some. Either it’ll have the M11 sensor and people will bitch and moan about the slow readout speeds. Or it’ll have the A1 sensor and people will bitch and moan it doesn’t have Sony AF. Or it’ll have both and they’ll bitch it doesn’t have enough buttons, or too many. It’ll be too big. Too small. Too heavy. Too black. Not enough film simulations. FFS! Just don’t buy it. Bugger off and rave about the A9III you just got and we’ll go out and take pictures.

Gordon

1000% this

[EddieCheddar]

5 hours ago, FlashGordonPhotography said:

A few things, having both the SL2 and Sony A1.

1. There’s no usable difference in IQ, resolution, DR or noise between them. I hav tested them side by side extensively (within the use case I use a camera) and there’s not real world difference. P2P is not a useful metric used in isolation. Nor is DXO. You are NOT going to get a better result from either camera. Functionality, handling, lens choice and technique are all that matters between them. The Sony has some significant advantages in shooting speed and AF. The SL2 has better IBIS and the APO Summicrons. It’s a wash. Personally I’d choose the Sony for Sports and Wildlife and the SL2 for landscapes and portraits. If you really want IQ a GFX100S is cheaper. And a 100II isn’t much more. Just don’t kid yourselves that your pictures will be better from one or the other.

2. Cutting edge tech is only useful if you need it. We’re long past the point where almost any camera can’t do a bit of everything. Yep. You can shoot great wildlife on and SL2. Or an M, if you don’t get eaten. Sony’s tracking focus IS better. But it’s likely more to do with the photographer than the camera if your cat photos aren’t in focus. It’s nice to have this stuff. But maybe it’s you that needs to improve. Not the camera.

3. We all have different needs/wants when it comes to gear. If you specialise in birds in flight then an A1 makes sense. If you just love stunning industrial design then an SL2 is the camera for you. People who make choices you wouldn’t make aren’t wrong. Just different. Different is good. We should encourage different.

4. No matter what happens it won’t be good enough for some. Either it’ll have the M11 sensor and people will bitch and moan about the slow readout speeds. Or it’ll have the A1 sensor and people will bitch and moan it doesn’t have Sony AF. Or it’ll have both and they’ll bitch it doesn’t have enough buttons, or too many. It’ll be too big. Too small. Too heavy. Too black. Not enough film simulations. FFS! Just don’t buy it. Bugger off and rave about the A9III you just got and we’ll go out and take pictures.

Gordon

"You can shoot great wildlife on and SL2. Or an M, if you don’t get eaten."  🤣

[Simone_DF]

12 hours ago, padam said:

That's the funny thing, I have a button to access that on Canon, but because I tend not to decouple the shutter button from focus, I've never used it, even though last time on a wedding, on a few occasions it might have been helpful to focus on one specific thing instead of getting confused amongst different moving targets in the frame. Of course I re-acquire, but the camera is still "too intelligent" to evaluate what's going on. I guess I could decrease sensitivity to switch subjects, but most of  the time I found it to work intelligently.
Just seems too much to have all at hand and risk switching things from a known, responsive way of usage, that - in theory - leaves me more keepers to choose from.

This is a "danger" I see with these "advanced" mirrorless cameras, all the power they have make them fiddly, more like a computer, less like a camera.
For instance, I don't see this mentioned anywhere else, but it is also a little odd that I see the camera locking on target changing to eye, whole subject etc. but I don't see the actual image cleanly as a whole (my mind is at least partially focused on whether the camera is locking on the closest eye or not).
While on an S 007 the experience is completely the opposite. I almost know in advance, that there is a high risk that the camera won't focus accurately, but the visibility of the image itself is clear. And the rangefinder is great, giving me some sort of feedback on focus while trying to 'distract' as little as possible. (When calibrated...)

This looks to me like a user problem, not a camera problem. You don't decouple focus? That's up to you to do that, if you want. On the SL2-S, if I feel like the face/eye/body recognition could fail because there are too many people in the frame, I switch to a different AF mode, usually field or spot, and thanks to the wonderful joystick, it works great.

For your second issue, perhaps you don't see it mentioned anywhere else because only you have this problem? If your mind is partially focused on whether the camera is locking on the eye or not, that, again, is your problem, not a camera problem. For me for example it's the opposite. I don't like rangefinders. I had various Ms up to the M10, and I still have a Voigtlander Bessa for film which I use occasionally, but after a few years I realized they are not what I am looking for in a camera. I acknowledge it's me, not the camera fault for being what it is. 

[Simone_DF]

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12 hours ago, Richardgb said:

I doubt even Leica has thought of a special edition of these, but for the enthusiuast who has everything (and can't take it with 'him'), maybe there's a market...

Doh, should have been "coffers" alright, not coffins 

But imagine a luxurious black wood coffin with a red dot on top, lining is also red silk. Weatherproof and a very high iso sensitivity to get pictures of the underworld.

[Richardgb]

2 hours ago, Simone_DF said:

Doh, should have been "coffers" alright, not coffins 

But imagine a luxurious black wood coffin with a red dot on top, lining is also red silk. Weatherproof and a very high iso sensitivity to get pictures of the underworld.

What would the secondhand market be like? Leica owners are wont to talk up the value of used gear in contrast, naturally, to every other brand.

[Jeff S]

23 hours ago, frankchn said:

Well the thread has gotten derailed.

The thread was started 9 months ago by ‘trickness’ to try to predict the ‘features’ of the SL3 when released.  

The easiest prediction of all was that the thread would get derailed, multiple times, over the subsequent year.

Jeff

[SJH]

On 11/16/2023 at 11:00 PM, FlashGordonPhotography said:

A few things, having both the SL2 and Sony A1.

1. There’s no usable difference in IQ, resolution, DR or noise between them. I hav tested them side by side extensively (within the use case I use a camera) and there’s not real world difference. P2P is not a useful metric used in isolation. Nor is DXO. You are NOT going to get a better result from either camera. Functionality, handling, lens choice and technique are all that matters between them. The Sony has some significant advantages in shooting speed and AF. The SL2 has better IBIS and the APO Summicrons. It’s a wash. Personally I’d choose the Sony for Sports and Wildlife and the SL2 for landscapes and portraits. If you really want IQ a GFX100S is cheaper. And a 100II isn’t much more. Just don’t kid yourselves that your pictures will be better from one or the other.

2. Cutting edge tech is only useful if you need it. We’re long past the point where almost any camera can’t do a bit of everything. Yep. You can shoot great wildlife on and SL2. Or an M, if you don’t get eaten. Sony’s tracking focus IS better. But it’s likely more to do with the photographer than the camera if your cat photos aren’t in focus. It’s nice to have this stuff. But maybe it’s you that needs to improve. Not the camera.

3. We all have different needs/wants when it comes to gear. If you specialise in birds in flight then an A1 makes sense. If you just love stunning industrial design then an SL2 is the camera for you. People who make choices you wouldn’t make aren’t wrong. Just different. Different is good. We should encourage different.

4. No matter what happens it won’t be good enough for some. Either it’ll have the M11 sensor and people will bitch and moan about the slow readout speeds. Or it’ll have the A1 sensor and people will bitch and moan it doesn’t have Sony AF. Or it’ll have both and they’ll bitch it doesn’t have enough buttons, or too many. It’ll be too big. Too small. Too heavy. Too black. Not enough film simulations. FFS! Just don’t buy it. Bugger off and rave about the A9III you just got and we’ll go out and take pictures.

Gordon

Love it and a man after my own heart having had all the Sony fast stuff and just got bored bored bored!!

[Gavin G]

I personally hope SL3 come with

1. Better AF system,, more than Q3?
2. Tilt screen like Q3
3. Resolution cropped modes like M11

[T25UFO]

1 hour ago, Gavin G said:

I personally hope SL3 come with

1. Better AF system,, more than Q3?
2. Tilt screen like Q3
3. Resolution cropped modes like M11

1.  AF must be better than Q3

2.  It probably will, although I seldom use the tilt on my Q3

3.  That would be nice

4.  CFexpress card would also be nice and maybe internal memory

Edited November 18, 2023 by T25UFO

[Simone_DF]

6 minutes ago, T25UFO said:

1.  AF must be better than Q3

Unlikely, at least for now. They finally implemented PDAF, but it needs more development time on the software side. 

[padam]

https://leicarumors.com/2023/11/21/new-leica-type-5404-camera-registered-in-asia-leica-sl3.aspx/

[nicci78]

On 11/18/2023 at 10:20 AM, T25UFO said:

1.  AF must be better than Q3

2.  It probably will, although I seldom use the tilt on my Q3

3.  That would be nice

4.  CFexpress card would also be nice and maybe internal memory

Q3 AF is not fast enough due to lens design. It was made at a time of pedestrian AF speed. 

Sony has started to redesigned its whole lens line up to accommodate faster AF : tiny AF lens elements, 2 or even 3 pulse AF motors. And at the same time making them smaller with exceptional IQ.

APO-Summicron-SL should be up to task with their dual AF linear motors. Not as good as Sony's pulse motors, but it will be miles better than Q3 moving a huge AF lens element with an old DC motor. 

Leica would have to redesign the lens for future Q4 and of its whole SL optics line in order to really take advantage of hybrid contrast + phase + AI AF

[frame-it]

the full translated text>>

Recently, the relationship between Panasonic and Leica has heated up a bit.

 

Panasonic registered P2303A (2023AP16161, 2023-09-28, see Figure 1), and Leica registered Type 5404 (2023AJ18816, 2023-11-04, see Figure 2). According to reliable information, the two use the same wireless solution (the same module) and are very closely related.

 

Information that is currently basically credible:

1. Many parties claim that they share the same photosensitive pixel design and are high-pixel models with a total sensor pixel count of 62Mp.

 

Information not yet clear:

2. The information source on the L side believes that it is the product of the SL system that shares the CIS between Leica Q3/Leica M11, because it supports 240Mp video, 6.5-stop anti-shake, phase focusing, a maximum continuous shooting speed of 9fps, and cropping support. 8K/30p and 4K/60p + full frame & S35 C4K/30p. The specifications are basically similar to the Leica Q3.

 

3. The information source on the P company side provided a piece of information: Quadruple primary color カラーフィルター, a CIS deeply customized for P company, without LPF. The basic performance and appearance of this product are almost the same as the S5M2, with a resolution of 60M, 9fps 14bit mechanical shutter continuous shooting, 15M 60fps electronic shutter continuous shooting, EV -6 - 18 focus performance, and a phase focus system. Among them, the full-frame mode video has improved compared to S5M2: OpenGate 3:2 4.8K/59.94fps, 17:9 4.8K/59.94fps, 9.5K oversampling C8K/23.98fps, 4.8K oversampling C4K/96.00fps, 1.16 x-crop C4K/119.88fps, 16:9 horizontal pixel crop at 17:9 height.

Leica's new camera will be a high-pixel L-mount camera with almost the same specs as the Q3. Is this the SL3 that is rumored to be coming? On the other hand, Panasonic's new model is rumored to be a high-pixel model based on the S5II with a 60-megapixel sensor. Is this camera the rumored successor to the S1R (S2R?)?

 

 

[fededuran]

The SL3 is coming in the first 3-4 months of 2024. I think the real value will be a Panasonic S1R ii (60 Mp) with a more polished body and UX. Similar ecosystem and not overpriced. 

[frame-it]

6 minutes ago, fededuran said:

I think the real value will be a Panasonic S1R ii

Value for money re: camera body, on a Leica Forum??

The Panasonic specs looks good.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[LBJ2]

As expected by many, the rumor continues the same sensor currently in the M11 and Q3 will also be used in the SL3 ( no surprise if this turns out ). Or as I like to say, I will get the chance to try my SL APO primes on the M11's sensor 🤩

[TeleElmar135mm]

vor einer Stunde schrieb fededuran:

The SL3 is coming in the first 3-4 months of 2024. I think the real value will be a Panasonic S1R ii (60 Mp) with a more polished body and UX. Similar ecosystem and not overpriced. 

... since when is Leica overpriced