35mm Summicron vs (1970) vs 35mm Summarit 2.5 (2007)

[lebanese blonde]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Hi,

i love my 35mm Summicron v2 (1970) but since i had to take pictures at my brothers wedding i bought the 35mm Summarit 2.5 second hand to have a lens that is more predictable than the Summicron. You can't beat the Summicrons handling and built quality in my opinion. I really love the Summicron on my M6, but on my M240 it is pretty unpredictable. Sometimes you get glowy edges / highlights, sometimes not. I didn't want to risk anything especially with the brides white wedding dress.

The center is sharp on the Summicron, the corners and even the area around the center are / is pretty soft even at F8. Vignetting is kinda strong but this doesn't bother me. Backlight is it's biggest enemy - you can’t take pictures facing the sun because the whole image is gonna get completely white.

The Summarit is an aspherical lens even if it wasn't marketed this way by Leica. Corners are sharp, not much vignetting and the focus throw is the shortest i've ever seen. It is only a 2.5 lens versus the Summicrons 2.0 (a half stop) but the subject isolation seems to be quite the same between the two lenses.

I did a little comparison because maybe somebody is interested in buying a Leica lens in this price range. The Summarit costs about 1200€-1300€, just like the Summicron v2. The size and speed is almost the same, so in my eyes these two are pretty comparable in some aspects - even if they are almost 40 years apart.

If you compare the images the Summicron looks pretty bad like it had some kind of cheap plastic lenses. The rendering is way different (Summarit warm, Summicron pretty cool). I’m using Mastin Labs presets in capture one and i really do like the Summicron images because the look some kind of analog.

I can’t keep both lenses so i have to decide which one has to go.

 

Summicron pro:

- small

- f2

- sharp in the center

- a lot of character

- 52 years old

- it’s a Summicron, a piece of history and i own it now for almost 10 years

 

Summicron con:

- sometimes glowy

- pretty bad with backlight / flares

- sometimes „dull“ images

 

Summarit pro:

- sharp in the center and the corners

- super fast focus throw

- very nice flaring while shooting backlight scenes, you can shoot straight into the sun

 

Summarit con:

- f2.4

- images look really clean, maybe too clean

- way less charakter

 

I’ve considered selling them both including my 50mm Summicron v4 and getting a 35mm Summicron v4 to get the best compromise. Small, fast, maybe sharp corners, classic look - i don’t know about flaring and leica glow. The version 2 glow is the biggest issue in my eyes - what do you think?

 

Here’s the link to the flickr-album:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/blacksciencelabs/albums/72177720301530475

(I hope it is okay to post a flickr link)

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[TomB_tx]

I bought a v2 Summicron 35 in 1969 and used it for decades without complaint. After I got Digital Ms tried other 35s, and ended up with the Summarit 2.5 as my main lens on M10. On film and M9 I like the CV Nokton 1.4 v2 for both the small size and image quality. Other 35s I've tried were too large, even if images were good.

[a.noctilux]

Before selling the two nice 35mm you have now to replace them with the Summicron IV, ask yourself if this is NOT "KOB HYPE" often seen here and there, these years.

👇

As long time user of those you cited (and many more 35mm M or LTM lenses) you would not find "ideal lens",

for me sometimes the "IV" (I always use one since 1980's) can do but the other like the "III" is way better built.

The 2.5/35 the last 35mm I have is the closest to "ideal 35mm lens" (as said not possible to have) when we want "the job done" with best quality  good handling/carying.

 

After said this, you will see if you buy&use  that the Cron IV is "fragile" (to be choosen with care, and use with care) and can develop many flaws: I had hood not aligned, wobble, etc.

[Ray Vonn]

I wouldn’t sell one Leitz/ Leica lens for another, it’s unfortunately never as simple as that, they all have their particular charms individual to one another, so it is inevitable that you will be pining for one aspect of a lens or lenses that you have sold. If you can’t do that now then at least use and get familiar with one lens first before selling the other (and even then think twice before selling).

[wda]

Be sure, sell in haste, repent in leisure. Enjoy the best of both lenses. The modern Summarits are exceptional, comparable in performance to a modern Summicron. The older Summicron, gives you unique dreaminess.

[lebanese blonde]

Thank you for your answers!

Unfortunately i can't keep both lenses, so i have to sell one. 

Yeah, maybe it`s the "king of bokeh" hype, but it seems that the v4 Summicron has a lot of the characteristics of my two pros lists. 

vor 5 Stunden schrieb TomB_tx:

Other 35s I've tried were too large, even if images were good.

If size didn't matter i think i would give the Zeiss Distagon 35mm 1.4 a try, but that thing is huge. I really don't like huge lenses too.

vor 24 Minuten schrieb wda:

Enjoy the best of both lenses

I wish i could 😉 

[bdolzani]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

I've never owned the  v4 KOB but my hunch is that it's not largely different from the v2. A little more contrast I believe, and yes from what I've read, more of a plastic build.

I have the v2 as my first 35 (as you may know), since it was the least expensive leica branded 35 I could find, a handful of years ago. I've considered it perhaps not good enough in some aspects, but I always come back to digging it a lot. Like you said, it was only around $1300 US about 4 years ago - a wonderful value. And the size is is tiny and remarkable. 

Good luck! I also agree (from what I've read/seen/etc), the 35 summarit is an excellent compliment and modern look to the vintage lens, without going to an ASPH extreme. 

brian 

Edited August 24, 2022 by bdolzani

[Capuccino-Muffin]

2 hours ago, bdolzani said:

I've never owned the  v4 KOB but my hunch is that it's not largely different from the v2. A little more contrast I believe, and yes from what I've read, more of a plastic build.

I have the v2 as my first 35 (as you may know), since it was the least expensive leica branded 35 I could find, a handful of years ago. I've considered it perhaps not good enough in some aspects, but I always come back to digging it a lot. Like you said, it was only around $1300 US about 4 years ago - a wonderful value. And the size is is tiny and remarkable. 

Good luck! I also agree (from what I've read/seen/etc), the 35 summarit is an excellent compliment and modern look to the vintage lens, without going to an ASPH extreme. 

brian 

Keep the V2.

Soon, the internet will start hyping it and you will then own a Legendary gem. just like that.

[Michael Geschlecht]

Hello Everybody,

This is a very good Thread with a lot of good advice.

A technical point:

2.4 is the 1/2 stop between 2 & 2,8

2.5 is 2/3 of a stop slower than 2. Which is the same as 1/3 stop faster than 2.8

The difference between 1/2 of a stop & 2/3 of a stop is 1/6 of a stop. Which is not very much.

1/2 of 1 line on a ASA/ISO speed dial. Or 1/2 of a DIN number.

Best Regards,

Michael

 

[pgk]

18 hours ago, lebanese blonde said:

I’ve considered selling them both including my 50mm Summicron v4 and getting a 35mm Summicron v4 to get the best compromise. Small, fast, maybe sharp corners, classic look - i don’t know about flaring and leica glow. The version 2 glow is the biggest issue in my eyes - what do you think?

Keep the Summarit. Great and underrated lenses. Superb flare suppression, crisp, small and technically better than either the v.2 or v.4 (I've owned both). The 'glow' is uncorrected spherical aberration - a 'fault'.

[lebanese blonde]

vor 17 Stunden schrieb bdolzani:

I've never owned the  v4 KOB but my hunch is that it's not largely different from the v2. A little more contrast I believe, and yes from what I've read, more of a plastic build.

Do you think the v4 has that glow, too? Maybe nobody is talking about glow on the v4 because nobody wants to be accused of blasphemy?  From what i've seen the v4 has a much cleaner look than my Summicron v2 and the sharpness is not only in the center of the image. On the other hand i'm not really willed to pay 2000+€ for a quite old lens that maybe gets separation at some time that can't be fixed.

I think my heart wants to keep the summicron and my brain wants me to keep the summarit - my wallet tells me to sell both and buy a voigtländer

(side note: i really liked the 35mm nokton 1.4 v2 but i hated the focus tab because it is so small)

 

And here I stand, with all my lore,
Poor fool, no wiser than before.
 

 

[lct]

23 hours ago, lebanese blonde said:

I’ve considered selling them both including my 50mm Summicron v4 and getting a 35mm Summicron v4 to get the best compromise. Small, fast, maybe sharp corners, classic look - i don’t know about flaring and leica glow. The version 2 glow is the biggest issue in my eyes - what do you think?

No experience with v2 but v4 does not glow significantly. It is a contrasty lens, more so than v2 i suspect, with less acutance than modern asph lenses though. Matches well your 50/2 v4. I would keep this little gem if i were you

[bdolzani]

36 minutes ago, lebanese blonde said:

Do you think the v4 has that glow, too? Maybe nobody is talking about glow on the v4 because nobody wants to be accused of blasphemy?  From what i've seen the v4 has a much cleaner look than my Summicron v2 and the sharpness is not only in the center of the image. On the other hand i'm not really willed to pay 2000+€ for a quite old lens that maybe gets separation at some time that can't be fixed.

I think my heart wants to keep the summicron and my brain wants me to keep the summarit - my wallet tells me to sell both and buy a voigtländer

(side note: i really liked the 35mm nokton 1.4 v2 but i hated the focus tab because it is so small)

 

And here I stand, with all my lore,
Poor fool, no wiser than before.
 

 

Leica Glow - is there a preset for that? J/k.

Like I said I've debated on the 35 v2 vs v4, and figured I'd just appreciate the v2. I do like the idea of a sharper more modern 35 for things like weddings, etc like you mentioned. Another option would be keep the v2 for vintage and grab a Zeiss 35 f2 for sharpness and not as much $. That was my first lens for my M2 and had no complaints except it wasn't a leica lens...so I sold that for the 35 v2.

Having said that, that's a 2 lens solution. Like @pgk said, the summarit would be a bit of both (leica rendering and more modern). 

[lct]

53 minutes ago, lebanese blonde said:

I think my heart wants to keep the summicron and my brain wants me to keep the summarit - my wallet tells me to sell both and buy a voigtländer

(side note: i really liked the 35mm nokton 1.4 v2 but i hated the focus tab because it is so small)

I'm not good at comparing lenses of different apertures so all i can say about the Summarit 35/2.5 is it is an excellent lens indeed but among "slow" 35mm lenses i prefer the Biogon 35/2.8 personally. Among 35/2 lenses i would not rule out the Ultron 35/2 asph v1 (left) that has a similar IQ as the Summicron 35/2 asph v1 (right) in a smaller package. It exists in 2 versions, one of them having a focus stick instead of those small CV focus tabs that i don't like either. 

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

[Runkel]

I had a German v4 in the past and now have a very clean v2 recently serviced by DAG.  I did not own them at the same time and used each with a different digital M model, but I don't feel the difference between them is large in practice, and I *definitely* would not say that images from the v2 look "pretty bad like it had some kind of cheap plastic lenses."  This description makes me wonder if there may be something wrong with your lens.

Edited August 26, 2022 by Runkel

[rramesh]

I was in a similar boat early this year when I wanted to pick a 35 f/2 to replace my rather heavy 35 Nokton f/1.2.

I couldn't find a copy of the Summarit or the Summicron II/III in a condition I liked.

The Summicron IV was beyond my budget. 

Ended up buying the Voigtlander Ultron 35 II. 

Absolutely love it. 

[grahamc]

21 hours ago, lebanese blonde said:

Do you think the v4 has that glow, too? Maybe nobody is talking about glow on the v4 because nobody wants to be accused of blasphemy?  From what i've seen the v4 has a much cleaner look than my Summicron v2 and the sharpness is not only in the center of the image. On the other hand i'm not really willed to pay 2000+€ for a quite old lens that maybe gets separation at some time that can't be fixed.

I think my heart wants to keep the summicron and my brain wants me to keep the summarit - my wallet tells me to sell both and buy a voigtländer

(side note: i really liked the 35mm nokton 1.4 v2 but i hated the focus tab because it is so small)

 

And here I stand, with all my lore,
Poor fool, no wiser than before.
 

 

Hi 

I can’t help with the 2.5 as I don’t have one , but I have v3 and v4 35mm crons , along with the 50:2 v4 you own  

Regarding the v4 KOB ... I think overall if you can imagine a 35mm rendering with same (almost exactly to my eye) colours and contrast as your 50:2 v4, and behaving the very much the same at f2 in terms of “glow” (or not) then there you have your 35:2 v4.    I’ve done side by sides and they look extremely similar just in different FLs and more centre frame compression of course from the 50.  So yes, the KOB fits your brief in being well-behaved. 
 

My v3 is similar but definitely has that little more classic character, which I enjoy - slightly lower contrast and somehow a more classic look, earthier colours versus the pastels of the v4.  I also seem to get more subject separation than I tend to get with the v4.  
 

Overall I think losing the v2 (presuming it’s the same or similar to my v3) would be a real shame though, as would losing 50:2 v4. 

So a great solution as suggested by others could be a cheaper, well-behaved 35:2 from a third party manufacturer  

Alternatively if it was possible to retain the 50:2 v4 and pair it up with the 35:2 v4 then that would be fantastic.  I would see that as a beautiful set that bridges the old and the new and gives stable performance.  
 

 

 

Edited August 26, 2022 by grahamc

[lebanese blonde]

vor 20 Stunden schrieb bdolzani:

Another option would be keep the v2 for vintage and grab a Zeiss 35 f2 for sharpness and not as much $. That was my first lens for my M2 and had no complaints except it wasn't a leica lens...so I sold that for the 35 v2.

I've considered getting a Zeiss Biogon 35mm f2 myself but after using Leica lenses and getting that ultra fast focus with the focus tab i think i would always miss the focus tab. The Zeiss Planar 50mm was my first 50mm lens on my M6 and i didn't like the handling that much compared to a lens with a focus tab. I know that you can attach a focus tab but i think the focus resistance is too big for that very fast focusing. 

vor 20 Stunden schrieb lct:

Among 35/2 lenses i would not rule out the Ultron 35/2 asph v1 (left) that has a similar IQ as the Summicron 35/2 asph v1 (right) in a smaller package. It exists in 2 versions, one of them having a focus stick instead of those small CV focus tabs that i don't like either. 

Does the minimum focus distance and the decoupling (is this a word? :D) of the rangefinder bother you? I often shoot indoors (family, my dogs etc) and i'm not sure if this wouldn't bother me. 

 

vor 4 Stunden schrieb Runkel:

This description makes me wonder if there may be something wrong with your lens.

That sounded a bit harsh indeed. You can look at the comparison images on flickr (link is in my first post). I really like the analog look of the v2, but compared to the Summarit look pretty flat. I know that this is an unfair comparison. I don't think there's something wrong with my lens it was serviced in July and the lenses were cleaned.

 

vor 20 Minuten schrieb grahamc:

Hi 

I can’t help with the 2.5 as I don’t have one , but I have v3 and v4 35mm crons , along with the 50:2 v4 you own  

....

Alternatively if it was possible to retain the 50:2 v4 and pair it up with the 35:2 v4 then that would be fantastic if you are comfortable with the comments about build quality. (Again, use the 50:2 v4 as a reference for how the 35:2 v4 build feels . ... generally a little plasticky IMHO, but the advantage is this generation in both FL’s was super light). 
 

Thank you very much for your detailed insight and comparison of the 50mm v4 and the KOB. It`s very good to have that kind of comparison in look and feel even if it's different focal lenghts.

On the one hand it's a nice thought to have the KOB and the 50mm v4 at the same time because you get that super consistent look, but maybe this can be a disadvantage as well - it's a very hard decision

 

I want to thank you all so far for your answers and great advices, i can relate to all of them.

I think i need a couple more nights to sleep on this one

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[grahamc]

46 minutes ago, lebanese blonde said:

On the one hand it's a nice thought to have the KOB and the 50mm v4 at the same time because you get that super consistent look, but maybe this can be a disadvantage as well - it's a very hard decision

 

Yes I think that’s a good point. From what I have understood , some people like a pair to give them different looks (ie choices), whilst others like them to deliver the same look (ie constancy). I fall into the latter but it’s an interesting topic 

Edited August 26, 2022 by grahamc

[lct]

4 minutes ago, lebanese blonde said:

Does the minimum focus distance and the decoupling (is this a word? :D) of the rangefinder bother you?

Not at all. It's just than when you focus closer than 0.7m the rangefinder will not work any more. The RF patch will stay fixed then but the focus ring works perfectly down to 0.58m and so does the EVF if you use one.