Leica CL discontinued?

[elambo]

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I suppose I'd feel slightly better knowing that my CL is considered a current model, but if it's retired tomorrow it will continue to shoot the same photos it did when the camera was first introduced, and so I ultimately don't care.

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[M11 for me]

Am 27.3.2022 um 05:30 schrieb Einst_Stein:

Exactly. My M3 was discontinued way back in last century. So?

That is a fully different story. You cerainly are aware of that.

[wda]

45 minutes ago, elambo said:

I suppose I'd feel slightly better knowing that my CL is considered a current model, but if it's retired tomorrow it will continue to shoot the same photos it did when the camera was first introduced, and so I ultimately don't care.

That is the right attitude. My Digilux 2 still excels at what it does best, working within its limitations. And my X1. And my X Vario. And my M8.

[Einst_Stein]

2 hours ago, M11 for me said:

That is a fully different story. You cerainly are aware of that.

What?

[Einst_Stein]

2 hours ago, M11 for me said:

That is a fully different story. You cerainly are aware of that.

What?

[Einst_Stein]

2 hours ago, M11 for me said:

That is a fully different story. You cerainly are aware of that.

What?

OMG, Leica discontinued T!

and Digilux (1MP)

and ….

 

 

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[lct]

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Some good people here  seem to believe that camera brands have a sort of moral duty to continue a body and/or a lens with which they loose money.

[wda]

47 minutes ago, lct said:

Some good people here  seem to believe that camera brands have a sort of moral duty to continue a body and/or a lens with which they loose money.

Largely self-inflicted by Leica. Can you recall any serious promotion of the 'new' Leica CL?  It was launched and then abandoned. No marketing support whatsoever.

[lct]

54 minutes ago, wda said:

Largely self-inflicted by Leica. Can you recall any serious promotion of the 'new' Leica CL?  It was launched and then abandoned. No marketing support whatsoever.

Managing camera companies is not my speciality (by far: lawyer ) but the film CL lasted only 3 years with 2 dedicated lenses which were said to have a limited compatibility with M cameras then.

[Le Chef]

We’ve been through this endless times on the other thread. Leica demonstrates poor marketing and communication skills. The failures of the X line, T/TL/TL2/CL could have all been prevented if they knew what they were doing, and they clearly were clueless. The latest débâcle with the end of the CL and not communicating a path forward for those owners will lose them plenty of goodwill, and a significant loss of trust with regards to committing to the brand. And that’s just customers. I strongly suspect that dealers feel the same way.

In all Leica has made itself into a Harvard case study of how to fail, which is tragic when the product is basically very good.

Edited April 15, 2022 by Le Chef

[M11 for me]

Am 27.3.2022 um 05:30 schrieb Einst_Stein:

Exactly. My M3 was discontinued way back in last century. So?

What I meant with my post is not that Leica should never stop a product but that an M3 being discontinued by today is rather evident to me. Comparing an M3 to the CL is a fully different story. Plus its a different story whether CL owners are frustrated about Leica's move or the freedom of Leica to stop a product without having to explain. I hope its clear now.

[lct]

1 minute ago, Le Chef said:

We’ve been through this endless times on the other thread. Leica demonstrates poor marketing and communication skills. The failures of the X line, T/TL/TL2/CL could have all been prevented if they knew what they were doing, and they clearly were clueless. The latest débâcle with the end of the CL and not communicating a path forward for those owners will lose them plenty of goodwill, and a significant loss of trust with regards to committing to the brand. And that’s just customers. I strongly suspect that dealers feel the same way.

In all Leica has made itself into a Harvard case study of how to fail, which is tragic when the product is basically very good.

And yet this 90y+ old company is still alive, but again managing camera companies is not my speciality. I'm just glad to be able to use my M, R and TL lenses on current cameras. 

[wda]

32 minutes ago, lct said:

Managing camera companies is not my speciality (by far: lawyer ) but the film CL lasted only 3 years with 2 dedicated lenses which were said to have a limited compatibility with M cameras then.

With respect, you do not need to be a company manager or director to see the effect of no follow-up marketing. They felt it necessary to  sustain the sale of SL2 versions. Why not support their other models?

[jaapv]

37 minutes ago, Le Chef said:

 

In all Leica has made itself into a Harvard case study of how to fail

Indeed - by becoming the oldest surviving independent camera company. And profitable...🙄

[LocalHero1953]

54 minutes ago, Le Chef said:

In all Leica has made itself into a Harvard case study of how to fail, which is tragic when the product is basically very good.

You mean along with Bronica, Rollei, Yashica, Mamiya, Kodak, Chinon, Exacta......? or those that have survived only by being sold off like Olympus, Pentax, Minolta......? or just live on as a brand like Voigtlander?

Edited April 15, 2022 by LocalHero1953

[nicci78]

44 minutes ago, lct said:

And yet this 90y+ old company is still alive, but again managing camera companies is not my speciality. I'm just glad to be able to use my M, R and TL lenses on current cameras. 

Leica is still alive by luck : 
- saved by ELCAN which resurrect M4-2 ! Otherwise today’s main Leica activity won’t exist anymore. 
- saved again by Leica fan Dr Kaufmann. 
 

But looking at Zeiss business. We can say that Leica somewhat failed and Zeiss is now a superb company making absolutely über high technologies for the very best semiconductors. 

[lct]

13 minutes ago, wda said:

With respect, you do not need to be a company manager or director to see the effect of no follow-up marketing. They felt it necessary to  sustain the sale of SL2 versions. Why not support their other models?

If you ask my lawyer's opinion the duty of a company is to honor its warranty, not to continue an unsuccessful product, rather the opposite. As for my non-lawyer's-non-armchair-ceo's  opinion, i think Leica has taken a brave risk in trying to sell which is, to me, more or less impossible to sell, i.e. an expensive crop camera. Didn't work unfortunately but such is life. Some people take risks, others don't, but it is often the latter who are criticizing first .

[jankap]

Dear non-armchair-ceo, you are right. The M was and perhaps is the money-mine. They tried to diverse in several directions of photo technics, but were not successful with every try.

Edited April 15, 2022 by jankap

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[Le Chef]

31 minutes ago, LocalHero1953 said:

You mean along with Bronica, Rollei, Yashica, Mamiya, Kodak, Chinon, Exacta......? or those that have survived only by being sold off like Olympus, Pentax, Minolta......? or just live on as a brand like Voigtlander?

My point all along is that Leica’s poor marketing and communication is damaging their reputation. I’m very clear that the product is by and large good. That’s the irony.
 

I can’t comment on those other brands with the exception of Kodak which essentially turned themselves into the “frog in boiling water” story. They knew digital was happening and knew the consequences. They did nothing until it was too late. That’s poor management.

[Le Chef]

22 minutes ago, lct said:

If you ask my lawyer's opinion the duty of a company is to honor its warranty, not to continue an unsuccessful product, rather the opposite. As for my non-lawyer's-non-armchair-ceo's  opinion, i think Leica has taken a brave risk in trying to sell which is, to me, more or less impossible to sell, i.e. an expensive crop camera. Didn't work unfortunately but such is life. Some people take risks, others don't, but it is often the latter who are criticizing first .

Why are you and others here so passive when it comes to measuring the potential of the company? The English expression “Can’t complain, mustn’t grumble” rings true. You can’t sit back and simply say the product was unsuccessful and blame someone or something else for the failure: the company’s management failed at what they needed to do.

All through two threads we’re not talking about unsuccessful product, we’re talking about poor marketing and communication. If they had done a decent job the CL2 would likely be here already.

Edited April 15, 2022 by Le Chef