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Leica CL discontinued?


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This popped up on Leica Rumours:

>>Leica CL Camera Now Listed As Discontinued At B&H<<
Any thoughts - are Leica abandoning the line (I really hope not!) or is there a CL2 coming?

sorry just checked - the B&H site actually says “more on the way”.

Edited by vikasmg
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Leica store Manchester currently lists the silver CL available, in stock, and the black version on back order, usually available within 10 days. Lenses are on back-order apart from both versions of the 60 mm macro.

Edited by wda
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I am convinced CL is on it’s final journey. Just pushed the button to order another CL. My daughter takes my CL kit and keeps on saying her job is not done yet. 

The silver CL + 18-56mm kit is priced ~UK$24500, unfortunately I want another 11-23mm. So I order a black one (~HK$14800) and a 11-23mm (~HK$12200). 

 

 

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33 minutes ago, Einst_Stein said:

I am convinced CL is on it’s final journey. Just pushed the button to order another CL. My daughter takes my CL kit and keeps on saying her job is not done yet. 

The silver CL + 18-56mm kit is priced ~UK$24500, unfortunately I want another 11-23mm. So I order a black one (~HK$14800) and a 11-23mm (~HK$12200). 

 

 

Wise move. Even if the camera is being discontinued, it does not detract from the camera’s quality. As the Leica salesman at the local camera store told me, “ The CL is a great camera that never got a lot of love”. I intend to keep mine regardless of whether it is in production or not. 

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1 minute ago, JayBird said:

Wise move. Even if the camera is being discontinued, it does not detract from the camera’s quality. As the Leica salesman at the local camera store told me, “ The CL is a great camera that never got a lot of love”. I intend to keep mine regardless of whether it is in production or not. 

Same with me. 

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1 hour ago, JayBird said:

I intend to keep mine regardless of whether it is in production or not. 

This year saw the end of production of the Leica M10 (family), the Leica CL and the Nikon D500. That's all the digital cameras I have. I plan to continue using them for years to come. I have no plans to replace any of these cameras any time soon. 

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2 hours ago, JayBird said:

Wise move. Even if the camera is being discontinued, it does not detract from the camera’s quality. As the Leica salesman at the local camera store told me, “ The CL is a great camera that never got a lot of love”. I intend to keep mine regardless of whether it is in production or not. 

Exactly. My M3 was discontinued way back in last century. So?

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CL is old enough to be discontinued. FujiNoFilm has cameras with less than two years production span. 

Abandoning? Which else camera LCAG have with less crazy price tag, interchangeable and smaller lenses rather than old TL2? 

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1 hour ago, Ko.Fe. said:

CL is old enough to be discontinued. FujiNoFilm has cameras with less than two years production span. 

Abandoning? Which else camera LCAG have with less crazy price tag, interchangeable and smaller lenses rather than old TL2? 

It is for sure cl is not for everyone. No camera is.

For those who think whatever a camera is no good or too expensive, I am sure he will just move on to something else. 

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7 hours ago, Einst_Stein said:

I am convinced CL is on it’s final journey. Just pushed the button to order another CL. My daughter takes my CL kit and keeps on saying her job is not done yet. 

The silver CL + 18-56mm kit is priced ~UK$24500, unfortunately I want another 11-23mm. So I order a black one (~HK$14800) and a 11-23mm (~HK$12200). 

 

 

That is exactly the conclusion I reached in my article here https://www.davidaskham.com/the-future-of-the-leica

According to the MD and senior staff at Leica UK, the camera is very popular among British consumers, but that view is not shared by Leica Germany. I wonder why? I have also just added a 35 mm TL Summilux

Edited by wda
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For 50 years or so, the solution for Leica customers who sought a "inexpensive" Leica was simple (and well-known) - one bought a used Leica.

In 2004, a 1954 M3 could take the exact same pictures as a 2004 MP.

For the most part, even a 1946 Leica IIIc or a 1935 Leica III (Model F) could take the same pictures in 2004 - albeit with a different selection of lenses. (But on the plus side, they were smaller and lighter, like the current digital CL).

Digital brought a paradigm shift. First, digital cameras wouldn't last 50-90 years (although I assume there are still a few folks buying used M8s or M9s). And second, the technology has been in an "inflationary" stage (as in the "inflation" of the Universe in its first fraction of a second) where new cameras do in fact take "different" pictures, if not "better" pictures.

And it appears neither Leica nor its customers have quite figured out how to deal with that shift.

Leitz/Leica really didn't need to bother with an inexpensive line much, once the I/II/III "pick your features" screw-mount variants disappeared: the M2, 3 years of the film CL, the cost-reduced M4-2 made in Canada, a couple of "simplified" Rs (R4S/R-E). And except for the film CL, those were essentially all made on the same production lines - just substitute or leave out a few parts. Certainly not something as different as a Nikkormat or FM compared with a Nikon F/F2/F3, or a Canon FTb/AE-1 compared to a Canon F-1.

When the R line was discontinued in 2009, Dr. Kaufmann made an interesting statement: "Leica will no longer swim with the sharks." Which metaphor mean Leica would only make unique niche cameras which had little or no direct competition. The M rangefinders, and the large-sensor S line. Everything else would be Leicasonics.

So I was rather surprised that the TL/SL/CL appeared at all (the fixed-lens FF Q is an in-between case). And similarly that the SL-mount was made "open."

There was Leica, right back in the shark pool, where they competed directly with Sony and Fuji and Canon and Nikon and Panasonic and Sigma products again.

That doesn't mean I don't like the CL/SL systems - they aren't my ride, but I get the appeal. But I wonder why Leica changed course so quickly - and which strategy was (or will be) better in the long run.

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If my CL stops working, I will mount the CL lens on a full frame L camera. if my 11-23mm stops working, I will get a L mount lens of proper focal length. The earth will not stop moving!

Some people are screaming the lack of early noticed of the planned discontinue, some even swear they will never buy any Leica product again. 
What’s the matter?

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On 3/27/2022 at 4:38 AM, Einst_Stein said:

If my CL stops working, I will mount the CL lens on a full frame L camera. if my 11-23mm stops working, I will get a L mount lens of proper focal length. The earth will not stop moving!

Some people are screaming the lack of early noticed of the planned discontinue, some even swear they will never buy any Leica product again. 
What’s the matter?

I don't get it. Nothing lasts forever, and the CL has been around for over 4 years. In the meantime, we've had a global pandemic, global supply chain problems (including notably of computer chips, to include Sony CMOS sensors, which many assume is in the CL), and now a war in Europe and resultant energy crisis (especially felt in Germany due to dependence on Russian oil). So there are a lot of reasons why the climate today is not "business as usual," couple that with the fact that Leica has been busy with a pretty big launch of their flagship product most central to their identity (the M11, of course).

I would like to know as much as the next person what Leica's plans are, if any, for their APS-C line. But whatever decision they decide to make, you have to figure it makes sense to keep mum about it while they quietly unload existing stock. It happens all the time - someone buys a product (often at a discount!) and then finds that their brand new widget has been superseded by a successor, or abruptly discontinued, and then cries foul. But that's business, right?

I'm not betting on a CL2, but I would love to see one and on some level, I don't think its impossible. If there is a CL2, I will almost certainly buy one, barring some sort of blasphemous design decision. If not, I will probably keep my eyes peeled for a good deal on a second body, and certainly on some more TL lenses when people start panic-selling or retailers seek to liquidate. Until then, I will continue to dream big and pack small!

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The issue, as I keep saying, is not that the world won’t go on, it’s that information that may or may not be true leaked out of Leica about the APSC line being discontinued. If you “allow” leaks then you need to get ahead of the story which Leica has had 6 months to do and has failed to do so. That is resulting in a loss of confidence amongst buyers, owners and dealers. This would not be the first time as Leica has a history of walking away from product lines and saying nothing: original CL, R-line, X-line, T/TL/2 line anyone?

Those who have invested in TL lenses can hang on and just use their equipment until it fails. At that point it’s scrap. Given Leica’s previous pattern of behavior If Sigma were to launch an APSC camera that would take TL lenses, I suspect current CL owners would be happy to go in that direction and never look back.

Edited by Le Chef
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37 minutes ago, Le Chef said:

This would not be the first time as Leica has a history of walking away from product lines and saying nothing: original CL, R-line, X-line, T/TL/2 line anyone? [...]

Or the "cheap" Summarit line. Been there, seen that since the seventies. As far as i recall, Leica are always saying something but only when they are sure they can offer a replacement solution or not. Sorry to repeat myself but that sort of decision may imply to reveal projects that are not ready to be disclosed so people may well scream or stamp their feet furiously this will not change Leica's policy one iota. You prefer Fuji, Sony or whatever policies? So be it folks then you know what to do but i would keep my Leica lenses if you like them for use on a further Leica, Pana or Sigma APS or, more probably, FF body with crop mode if any. FWIW.

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11 hours ago, MJB said:

I don't get it. Nothing lasts forever, and the CL has been around for over 4 years. In the meantime, we've had a global pandemic, global supply chain problems (including notably of computer chips, to include Sony CMOS sensors, which many assume is in the CL), and now a war in Europe and resultant energy crisis (especially felt in Germany due to dependence on Russian oil). So there are a lot of reasons why the climate today is not "business as usual," couple that with the fact that Leica has been busy with a pretty big launch of their flagship product most central to their identity (the M11, of course).

I would like to know as much as the next person what Leica's plans are, if any, for their APS-C line. But whatever decision they decide to make, you have to figure it makes sense to keep mum about it while they quietly unload existing stock. It happens all the time - someone buys a product (often at a discount!) and then finds that their brand new widget has been superseded by a successor, or abruptly discontinued, and then cries foul. But that's business, right?

I'm not betting on a CL2, but I would love to see one and on some level, I don't think its impossible. If there is a CL2, I will almost certainly buy one, barring some sort of blasphemous design decision. If not, I will probably keep my eyes peeled for a good deal on a second body, and certainly on some more TL lenses when people start panic-selling or retailers seek to liquidate. Until then, I will continue to dream big and pack small!

You have all your reasons to worry the future of Leica ASP-C. Go ahead if you want.

For me, I just don’t see it is relevant. The world is full of uncertainty. This one? Not even the bottom is the least. 

 

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