Le Chef Posted April 17, 2022 Share #101 Posted April 17, 2022 Advertisement (gone after registration) 10 minutes ago, tritentrue said: Eh? Totally different menu, for starters. Directional pad, thumbwheel buttons, different battery, top LCD, optional grip, true magnification in the EVF . . . And no immediate post-release recall for the CL . . . "Just"???? The condescension gets tiresome . . . Just call it obfuscation and deflection. Why would you expect better from the echo chamber? 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted April 17, 2022 Posted April 17, 2022 Hi Le Chef, Take a look here Leica CL discontinued?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Le Chef Posted April 17, 2022 Share #102 Posted April 17, 2022 3 hours ago, IkarusJohn said: Quite clearly, they made a commercial decision to discontinue the APS-C system. My view is this was all about the T/TL/TL2 camera - the market never took to it. I suspect the problem was that Leica tried to bridge the camera / phone gap. If they had understood the phone market they would never have launched the T. It smacks of poor product and marketing management. If you wanted to bring phone users into Leica, they would have made a fixed 18mm lens camera and would have focused on social media shareware. How quickly can I get my images onto IG or FB? Instead the transfer software is slow and buggy at best. If you were an Apple iPhone user why would you bother? Maybe they couldn’t be bothered to understand it and just assumed, but who knows? Without inside knowledge we will never know. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted April 17, 2022 Share #103 Posted April 17, 2022 (edited) 53 minutes ago, tritentrue said: Eh? Totally different menu, for starters. Directional pad, thumbwheel buttons, different battery, top LCD, optional grip, true magnification in the EVF . . . And no immediate post-release recall for the CL . . . "Just"???? The condescension gets tiresome . . . Condescension? Buddy this is just a forum discussion, not a competition. Bit of civility wouldn’t go amiss. Quote Just call it obfuscation and deflection. Why would you expect better from the echo chamber Echo chamber? Most of this thread, and the other, is little more than rinse and repeat. I’m just another Leica user sharing my thoughts - that’s what we do, right. Usually politely, though. Edit - is there really anything more to say? If Leica has bothered to read this thread, I reckon they understand your opinions. Edited April 17, 2022 by IkarusJohn 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted April 17, 2022 Share #104 Posted April 17, 2022 33 minutes ago, Le Chef said: If you were an Apple iPhone user why would you bother? Because your Apple gadget is not milled from a solid block of aluminum of course. The Real Leica Man uses a telephone not an "iphone" (or is this e-phone?) anyway. Condescending me? . 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted April 17, 2022 Share #105 Posted April 17, 2022 (edited) • Edited April 17, 2022 by lct Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jankap Posted April 17, 2022 Share #106 Posted April 17, 2022 3 hours ago, lct said: • Agree! 1 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
frame-it Posted April 17, 2022 Share #107 Posted April 17, 2022 Advertisement (gone after registration) i wonder if they might just dump the CL innards into a Q body with L mount and sell it as a new improved CL2, then there's not much R&D, and they probably have those sensors already hence the "QL" someone mentioned in the fotos app, Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jankap Posted April 17, 2022 Share #108 Posted April 17, 2022 (edited) 22 minutes ago, frame-it said: i wonder if they might just dump the CL innards into a Q body with L mount and sell it as a new improved CL2, then there's not much R&D, and they probably have those sensors already hence the "QL" someone mentioned in the fotos app, You see that too simple. Think of the paid designer, the development, the manuals, the testing, the paid reviewers, the advertising, the spare parts organisation, the instruction of the Leica shops, etc. And then the production of 10.000(?) pieces with cases. Edited April 17, 2022 by jankap 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
frame-it Posted April 17, 2022 Share #109 Posted April 17, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, jankap said: You see that too simple. Think of the paid designer, the development, the manuals, the testing, the paid reviewers, the advertising, the spare parts organisation, the instruction of the Leica shops, etc. And then the production of 10.000(?) pieces with cases. sure, but they already have that assembly line, so no development, only testing, and they already/hopefully have spare parts for the q series and possibly plenty of Q shells Edited April 17, 2022 by frame-it Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Chef Posted April 17, 2022 Share #110 Posted April 17, 2022 1 hour ago, frame-it said: sure, but they already have that assembly line, so no development, only testing, and they already/hopefully have spare parts for the q series and possibly plenty of Q shells Unfortunately it’s way more complicated than that. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted April 24, 2022 Share #111 Posted April 24, 2022 On 4/17/2022 at 1:44 PM, frame-it said: i wonder if they might just dump the CL innards into a Q body with L mount and sell it as a new improved CL2, then there's not much R&D, and they probably have those sensors already hence the "QL" someone mentioned in the fotos app, No they could not. The Q is designed with an integrated lens-sensor unit. Replacing that by a lens mount is a major redesign. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
frame-it Posted April 24, 2022 Share #112 Posted April 24, 2022 (edited) 11 minutes ago, jaapv said: No they could not. The Q is designed with an integrated lens-sensor unit. Replacing that by a lens mount is a major redesign. i meant only the shell of the body, it cant be so difficult to attach an L Mount frame into the Q body Shell, distance can be handled by positioning the sensor closer or further as required. probably has plenty of space to fit a CL motherboard https://www.nofocus.blog/home/leica-q-diy-infrared-mod https://www.macfilos.com/2019/10/14/leica-q-strip-down-now-put-it-all-together-again/ Edited April 24, 2022 by frame-it Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted April 24, 2022 Share #113 Posted April 24, 2022 That would mean a completely new bodyshell, with a different hole for the mount on the front and all different fixing points in the interior. AKA a different camera. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PEL Posted April 26, 2022 Share #114 Posted April 26, 2022 The CL with Tl lenses has been something that made me put my Nikon gear on the shelf, at least for street photography and mountain walking. Ok, we will not have a CL2? May be I will switch to the Z mount and skip Leica. But a camera like the M11, lets call it CL2 full frame with 60 mp resolution combined with a stabilised sensor, tiltable screen, an electric viewfinder with l-mount and a small body, would make me continue my Leica adventure. If not, I guess a move back to Nikon Z mount with adapters will be the future. Espessially with the new Z9 sensor in new and smaller bodies... Well, I am not in a hurry. The CL is actually still a really good camera! The 11-23, 18, 60 apo and 35 on this small CL body is still unbeatable IMO when it comes to weigt against quality. So now Leica should now where my money goes if the do not deliver. Of course a CL2 with stabilised aps sensor and tiltable screen would be my dream! Leica, do you listen? 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kim Dahl Posted April 27, 2022 Share #115 Posted April 27, 2022 14 hours ago, PEL said: The CL with Tl lenses has been something that made me put my Nikon gear on the shelf, at least for street photography and mountain walking. Ok, we will not have a CL2? May be I will switch to the Z mount and skip Leica. But a camera like the M11, lets call it CL2 full frame with 60 mp resolution combined with a stabilised sensor, tiltable screen, an electric viewfinder with l-mount and a small body, would make me continue my Leica adventure. If not, I guess a move back to Nikon Z mount with adapters will be the future. Espessially with the new Z9 sensor in new and smaller bodies... Well, I am not in a hurry. The CL is actually still a really good camera! The 11-23, 18, 60 apo and 35 on this small CL body is still unbeatable IMO when it comes to weigt against quality. So now Leica should now where my money goes if the do not deliver. Of course a CL2 with stabilised aps sensor and tiltable screen would be my dream! Leica, do you listen? I think it's as official as it ever gets. There is no more coming from Leica APSC. Nikon is definitely a good bet. The development at Leica APSC has stopped. 😢😢 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSMW Posted April 27, 2022 Share #116 Posted April 27, 2022 What I'd like to see is a proper collaboration between the 3 L Mount members and make a single body that is a mash up of the CL, the Q and the FP which is identical but each brand can have it's own logo on it. Probably FF now, but with an APSC crop option. I'd be happy bunny and buy at least one. The Q2 is a bit limited for my needs. The CL getting a bit long in the tooth possibly and although I'm not totally opposed to APSC... The FP/L isn't as developed as it could be. Instead of just sharing a mount and little else, build something together in at least one body. Please. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simone_DF Posted April 27, 2022 Share #117 Posted April 27, 2022 3 hours ago, MrSMW said: What I'd like to see is a proper collaboration between the 3 L Mount members and make a single body that is a mash up of the CL, the Q and the FP which is identical but each brand can have it's own logo on it. So you'll just pay extra for the red dot? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Chef Posted April 27, 2022 Share #118 Posted April 27, 2022 “Portfolio Management” as practiced by GM led to cynical badge engineering and poor differentiation. Imagine Leica, Panasonic and Sigma agreeing which camera specs they would own, based on size: Panasonic would get the best spec and Leica the worst. The only way they would accept anything different would be on profit share. So does anyone realistically see that happening? The Q is a one trick pony. The lens and the shutter are integrated as one unit. It would likely be cheaper to start over and build something designed for ICL. Maybe call it the SL3… The L-series lenses need to be lightened to compete against systems like Nikon’s planned 50 lens Z Series. Does Leica have the money to do that quickly before they are overwhelmed by FF competitors? There is no free lunch in this game. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
elambo Posted April 27, 2022 Share #119 Posted April 27, 2022 (edited) 4 hours ago, Simone_DF said: So you'll just pay extra for the red dot? Thousands of people do, with new members arriving every day. Edited April 27, 2022 by elambo 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Chef Posted April 27, 2022 Share #120 Posted April 27, 2022 7 minutes ago, elambo said: Thousands of people do, with new members arriving every day. Good you have the data at your fingertips! Got the data that shows which products they are buying? Do you also have data that also shows how many are leaving everyday? Would be interested if you could that share with us. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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