What is the most versatile flash to use on a leica MP (film)?

[Jodad]

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Would like to start using flash and wondered if you could help me with finding a flash that works best with a film MP. I am a total beginner when it comes to flash and want something that takes out all guess work/ required knowledge to use and, will maximise the number of good results (apparently its easy to over flash the subject even when using TTL). Although I love full manual when taking photos, for now and for starters, with flash, I want something that will do it all for me until I get some practice. 

Yes, I know the Ms aren't the most suitable for flash but lets please keep this out of the discussion since an M is what i have and what I'm going to be using.

 

 

 

[madNbad]

Get a Meike 320 for Nikon. You won't need the TTL connections but it's a small versitle flash with both tilt and rotation. The Meike is a good size for your MP, not huge like the Metzs' and more offers more flexibility than the SF-20/24d. Plus they're about sixty five usd so if you don't like it, not much invested.

[Ouroboros]

2 hours ago, Jodad said:

Would like to start using flash and wondered if you could help me with finding a flash that works best with a film MP. I am a total beginner when it comes to flash and want something that takes out all guess work/ required knowledge to use and, will maximise the number of good results (apparently its easy to over flash the subject even when using TTL). Although I love full manual when taking photos, for now and for starters, with flash, I want something that will do it all for me until I get some practice. 

Yes, I know the Ms aren't the most suitable for flash but lets please keep this out of the discussion since an M is what i have and what I'm going to be using.

 

 

 

Without knowing how you intend to use flash you might want to think about the possibility that you will want to use flash more creatively than what a simple hot shoe mounted flash can offer after you've learnt the basics.

I use Godox AD200's off the camera at weddings and events.  They have reasonable power output, WiFi remote control and a range of heads and modifiers are available:  http://www.godox.com/EN/Products_Witstro_Pocket_Flash_AD200.html

[madNbad]

Nikon SC-28 for off camera flash. It will carry the TTL information, if needed. The SF-20 is a nice flash but the design is from the 1990's. There are a lot of better options out there now. As Ouroboros noted there are flashes on the market with built in wi-fi making multi flash setup's easier and more affordable for the occasional user. Also, try to find the right size flash for your MP. Many of the new flashes are slimmer, lighter and offer both tilt plus rotation and are often bundled with or have built in reflectors or diffusers. Today it's easy to find a small, powerful flash to slip in the bag.

[Danner]

Metz has a great range of products.  But, any auto-flash (a flash with its own built-in light sensor) will work for routine on-camera flash pictures.  Getting the flash off the camera, with an extension cord or wireless trigger, gives you more flexibility in the direction of light.  Don't overlook studio type flash units if you are shooting static scenes in a controlled environment.  Personally, I like the Paul C. Buff range of products, especially the Digi-Bees, because they can also be used as continuous lights.

 

https://www.paulcbuff.com/Flash-Units/DigiBee/DigiBee-Flash-Unit.html

[a.noctilux]

Leica MP has synch. for electronic flash 1/50 s.

This would be the most limited factor.

 

I'd use any flash with choices of auto and/or manual power over small flash with only one or two power outputs.

I use since long many old style flashes Cullmann CX40 ( like here ) the most versatile with manual zoom head 24 to 100mm and choices of f/4, 5.6,8 11 in A mode, and the nice

smaller Cullmann DC32, (like here ), Osram VS280 (see here ), Metz 32CT3, etc.

These flashes share SCA300 system and all with orientable head, use 4xAA batteries and can be used off camera with extension cord.

[madNbad]

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Since the MP doesn't support TTL flash, the cord will simply allow you to trigger the flash off camera.

[Ouroboros]

I personally don’t use or want ttl flash. As a creative asset,  especially for people photography, flash is most effective when used manually.  
WiFi control with off-camera flash is via the hot or cold shoe mounted trigger.

[madNbad]

With many new manufactures bringing flashes to the market, they're a so many choices now and most include features once reserved for high end units. The ability to adjust output in manual mode and more effective auto sensors. With built in wi-fi, you can now get three flashes, be creative and have spent less money than a dedicated flash from several years ago that if it was TTL relied on line of sight to transmit the information to additional off camera flashes. Leica M and flash have never really been a natural fit. The M6 TTL and M7 are the outliers. As has been pointed out, you don't need TTL for creativity. Now if you just want something for some fill or to light a whole room, there are plenty of options.

[pgk]

1 minute ago, Steven said:

How does one meter with no ttl flash ? 

Well, you could use a flash meter. Or you could calculate things manually based on the guide number and power setting. In the past there were a number of solutions. Nikon even produced the 45/2.8 GN (Guide Number) Nikkor. Whilst far from impossible to use flash manually and get predictable results, it does mean pre-visualising what you are trying to achieve (amount of fill-flash or pure flash only illumination). TTL flash is simply another form of automation and has its limitations depending on sophistication of camera/flash.

[Danner]

17 minutes ago, Steven said:

What ? the MP doesn't have TTL?! that changes my plan ! how does one meter with no ttl flash ? 

Ha!  What was once old is new again.  Guide Numbers:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guide_number

Or, the use of an auto flash (flash has built in light sensors that extinguishes the flash when exposure value ha been reached).

Edited November 29, 2021 by Danner

[Ouroboros]

44 minutes ago, Steven said:

Any recommandation of auto flash to use with a Leica MP?! Thanks 

Depends on what you intend to do with it.

Are you an aspiring Bruce Gilden with a small flash in one hand attached by a synch cable to a camera in the other hand or do you want adjustable power settings,  tilt & swivel head for bouncing the flash, adjustable beam angle etc? 

Take a look at Metz for starters.

[Hintsalae]

51 minutes ago, Steven said:

Any recommandation of auto flash to use with a Leica MP?! Thanks 

Isn't the leica sf20 auto flash that you already have?

[Aryel]

1 hour ago, Steven said:

What ? the MP doesn't have TTL?! that changes my plan ! how does one meter with no ttl flash ? 

I do not have a mp so please correct me if I am wrong: it does ttl for metering (I.e it meters through the lens) but it does not do ttl flash (I.e it cannot adjust exposure time based on flash light). You need an electronic shutter for ttl flash. 

As a side not, basic manual flash is fairly straightforward: look at the scale and select the aperture based on the distance to the flash unit. 

Edited November 29, 2021 by Aryel

[tom0511]

When I was shooting film with M6 many many years ago I had good experience with Metz flash in auto mode.

32ct8, or Metz45 (I just bought a used one for very very low price)

 

[plaidshirts]

3 hours ago, Steven said:

I'm in the same boat at the OP. Want to try flash photography on film. 

My basic instinct told me to order an SF20 to use on my MPs. Seems pretty straight forward. Second step will be to get a cable to use it "off" of the hotshoe... 

Any advice would be helpful. I have no idea how to use this ! 

Sf20 has an auto mode. You plug in the ISO and aperture, set the SS to 1/50 and shoot. I used it on my M6 classic all the time. Now I use my Fuji EFX20 flash manually. 

[250swb]

I've always used my Olympus FL36 or FL50 (set for 35mm format) either on the flash shoe or via a cable. But it depends what you are trying to illuminate, that would be a really mega clue when it comes to recommendations. By way of context I've been a theatre photographer in the film era and never used flash, despite the stage lighting being worse than a night time street scene. But also I've been a Press photographer at the same time snapping politicians and using flash in daylight. It's a moving target unless the type of photo you want to make is clear.

[stray cat]

Some great advice here, but perhaps a definition of how the different types of flash work would help:

TTL flash will take measurements from the camera, what aperture you are setting, shutter speed, and ISO and then compute a flash output.  With Leica film cameras only the M6TTL and M7 allow use of this feature.

With non-TTL Automatic flash you tell your flash what aperture and ISO you will be using then the flash will compute a flash output based on how much light is available.  This will be how most flash units will work on an MP or similar Leica. For example, an SF20 or any of the SCA-based independent makers’ units such as Metz or Cullman. Or Nikons, Sunpaks and so on. Using a Nikon sync cord (SC17 or SC28) to link a TTL or Auto flash will carry all the information both the camera and the flash need to deliver perfect flash exposures with the flash off the camera. Features like swivelling and tilting heads on the flash enable a plethora of options regarding bounce flash etc.

For casual and rookie flash use these two types (above) are generally easier, more flexible and more convenient than the manual flashes described below.

An adjustable manual flash is one where you set your flash output manually based on what aperture and iso settings you are using. You can use a flash meter to determine what you should set the camera to or else you use a relatively complex set of mathematical formulae.

With a non-adjustable manual flash, you don't set any settings on the flash, it will flash at full power. You control your exposure by setting your camera to a certain ISO and aperture depending on how far the subject is.  

Flash gives photography a different horizon. With Leica film cameras the 1/50 maximum sync speed, whilst it may be considered restrictive, lends pictures taken with a flash on Leica cameras a certain aesthetic which is quite unique and may be embraced as a creative tool. 

[stray cat]

I just checked my SF-20 and on Auto with iso800 film f11 will give you a range of anything up to 16 feet (5 meters) while f5.6 will give you up to double that (32 feet/10 meters). It doesn’t want to tell me f8 or f16 for reasons best known to itself. So you have quite some flexibility within that and, from my experience, exposures will be perfect. One thing, if you do buy an SF-20, or any flash for that matter, it’s best to ensure that it comes with an accessory diffuser that sits over the flash window and is necessary for use with a 28mm lens.

Best of luck with your flash adventures!

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Danner]

I agree about the SF 20.  Leica does a good job with the design, the flash window is significantly separated from the lens axis, which is good for a number of reasons.  I use a (discontinued) Metz CS-2 (I think that is the model), which is of similar design to the Leica, and also of fine quality.  IMHO, some of the low-cost, high-feature Chinese models lack in the area of haptics and user satisfaction/gratification.

Edited November 30, 2021 by Danner