My first Leica Film Body - thoughts on First Glass. 35APO Sumicron/ 50APO Sumicron

[Giguchan]

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Hello All,

First of all Don't tell my "Q" buddies I'm in here. I don't want to give the impression that i am being ungrateful after all of the great advice  I've received there😃

I am about(well Christmas time)  to purchase my first Leica film Body.  I already have a Q2/Q2M- which i love dearly.  I haven't shot film since my Nikon F5 Days I am starting to miss it. My Main shooting interests involves Street shooting- the Q's do this well. I just feel that something is missing and that something is Film.  I need to slow down and re invent myself.  I have a friend  who has never stopped shooting Film. I'd like to start shooting with him.

Simply put..

  I am wondering which Lens  should i start  off with first?  The 50 or the 35? I already have the 28  in my Q's so i don't  think I'm going that wide. I tried both and i kinda like the 50 the best. There are times  when i wish i did have the 35.   To tell you the truth  i think that if you  have one.. eventually  you will purchase the other.  I don't know anyone  who has an MP with more  than  2 Lenses.  

Thanks 

What Focal did you start off with?

 

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[leica5]

50mm summicron M back in 1985,when i purchased my first leica  an M6.

[TomB_tx]

I bought my M4 in 1968, with 90 TE (fat), then 50 (v3) and 35 (v2) Summicrons over the next year. That was my M setup for the next 40 years - fully satisfied with it. In '69 I also added a Leicaflex SL with 50 Summicron, 135 Elmarit, and bellows 100 macro. Also used extension tubes for closeups. Used the SLR for closeups and tele, with M as main camera. To me 35, 50, & 90 form the essential kit for an M.

[yggdra.omega]

Often times when I shoot my 50apo on my MP I wonder why I bothered to shoot film at all; some of the negatives look a bit "too" pristine. I run into the same issues with my Hasselblad H4x kit. I personally think you couldn't do wrong with a regular 50cron or lux, or a 35FLE.

Also, is that comic sans as your font? Oh my word.

[ktmrider2]

I think both those APO lenses are overkill for film.  If you want Leica lenses, the current version of the 35 or 50 Summicron would be outstanding.  However, both Zeiss and Voigtlander are making killer lenses in those focal lengths as well.  The 35f2.8 C Biogon may be the sharpest lens made in 35mm and goes new for less than $900 while the 50 Planar or Sonnar also have a number of fans and cost less then half of the Summicrons.  And although I don't know much about them, remember that Voightlander is making APO lenses in both 35 and 50 focal lengths for a cost of about one tenth that of Leica's APO"s.

Personally, I shoot both the 35 f2.8 C Biogon and 35f1.2 Nokton (and still have less than a new Summicron would cost) and in 50 I have the latest 50 Cron purchased back in the mid 1990's and a new 50f1.2 Nokton which has knocked the socks off lots of Leica lovers here on this site.  

But honestly it would be really, really hard to get a bad 35 or 50 or even 90 among the current offerings from Leica, Zeiss or Voigtlander.

And IMHO the M2 has the BEST viewfinder of any Leica if you like 35 while the M3 has the best for 50.  All other Leica's are just a modest refinement of the classic M2/M3.  Presently, I use an M4 (modern features of film loading and rewinding) while still has the classic German workmanship while my button rewind M2 may be the most elegant Leica body (missing self timer) if you can live with 35/50/90.

 

 

Edited August 23, 2021 by ktmrider2

[andrew01]

Even if my Euro millions numbers came up I think I would still struggle to justify $9k for a 50mm or 35mm M lens for use with film.

The Zeiss and Voigtlander alternatives have superb build quality and the optical performance is more than enough for film. Clinical optical perfection in the corners of the frame is not necessary for artistically interesting photos.

Of the Leica lenses I would probably seek out mint copies of the classic lenses, eg the early 50mm summicron rigid for around $1.5k.

 

 

[250swb]

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There are too many variables with film to bother with ultra expensive lenses, unless you limit yourself to 25 ISO fine grain films and a tripod. Buy a bag full of Voigtlander lenses and you'll get change from an APO and have more fun. Consider history as an example, photographers used Leica and Nikon cameras side by side, and only the people who where there can remember which pictures are which. Yes I know, practical examples often don't do much to boost Leica folklore, but if it's not Voigtlander then consider the ordinary Summicron etc.

[Topsy]

10 hours ago, Giguchan said:

 I don't know anyone  who has an MP with more  than  2 Lenses.  

 

I have an MP and 10 lenses. 😄 That said I also have an M2 and 3 M9s..........

[Mute-on]

7 minutes ago, 250swb said:

There are too many variables with film to bother with ultra expensive lenses, unless you limit yourself to 25 ISO fine grain films and a tripod. Buy a bag full of Voigtlander lenses and you'll get change from an APO and have more fun. Consider history as an example, photographers used Leica and Nikon cameras side by side, and only the people who where there can remember which pictures are which. Yes I know, practical examples often don't do much to boost Leica folklore, but if it's not Voigtlander then consider the ordinary Summicron etc.

This is sensible advice. You don’t need an APO for film.  If you have cash to burn, go ahead, but the benefit over a current model Summicron will be negligible, by all accounts.

I started with a 35, then added 50 (which I never really bonded with, more of a special purpose lens for me), and a 28, which could easily be my only lens.

The choice is yours. 

[Jon Warwick]

1 hour ago, Mute-on said:

This is sensible advice. You don’t need an APO for film.  If you have cash to burn, go ahead, but the benefit over a current model Summicron will be negligible, by all accounts.

I started with a 35, then added 50 (which I never really bonded with, more of a special purpose lens for me), and a 28, which could easily be my only lens.

The choice is yours. 

Arguably not just for film. Before i sold my M240, I tripod mounted and test shot my 50 Summicron APO vs 50 Summicron v5, and at 100% pixel peeping could see no difference at all in the majority of the frame (albeit edges were better on the APO). For film, if I wanted a really good 50mm again I’d simply buy a Voigtlander APO Lanthar these days, or go for a 50 Summicron v5 because I like the built in lens hood.

 

Edited August 23, 2021 by Jon Warwick

[a.noctilux]

For film, I'd bother more with the film in use than the lens in use.

In my long time film user, I saw that the film in use is the limiting factor.

Using film is another fun, not to chasing the last (expensive) gear.

...

@Giguchan you may ask moderator to correct the Sumicron to Summicron, with two m this would be 'richer' 😉...

[Jon Warwick]

40 minutes ago, a.noctilux said:

For film, I'd bother more with the film in use than the lens in use.

In my long time film user, I saw that the film in use is the limiting factor.

Using film is another fun, not to chasing the last (expensive) gear.

...

Yes, the film makes a large, and as you say, fun difference. One that I personally could never quite master though was Adox 20, it was so ridiculously fine grained that it felt almost plasticy and lacking bite. I’ve seen amazing scans off it elsewhere though, so might just be my inability to make the most of it!

In terms of equipment itself, I still recall being at a Leica store exhibition about 7 years ago, and the photographer there remarked how he got an analogue MP because he thought it was the pinnacle of film cameras, and armed with it he would never then feel the need to follow the endless upgrade pattern that so many follow with digital. His portraits (using a 90mm Macro, I think, and using B&W film) were printed to 30” and just so beautiful in their rendering (including tonal depth). Still to this day I think both the underlying reason for his long-term plan for equipment choice AND given the exquisite prints he achieved with it made complete logical sense.

 

 

Edited August 23, 2021 by Jon Warwick

[AndreasG]

vor 12 Stunden schrieb leica5:

50mm summicron M back in 1985,when i purchased my first leica  an M6.

Same with me, however early 1986. Both I still use.

[Danner]

IMHO, the V4 35mm Summicron is the quintessential film lens.  And, or course, the 50mm Summicron (V3, V4, or V5).

[johntobias]

18 hours ago, Giguchan said:

  I don't know anyone  who has an MP with more  than  2 Lenses.  

 

 

I 'HAD' 8 but since selling my M10 for a SL2 I've slimmed down my collection ...I carry my MP with a 50 lux in a tiny bag (bill Amberg) along with a WATE, + frankenfinder, a 24 Elmar M and a 35 Summicron Asph...... I've recently sold a 50 cron, 50 2.8 Elmar-M, a voigt 12mm  a sum micron 90 and have a 135 telyt m for sale.... so yes, I do use wide lenses a lot with film,  but over 50mm, the SL2 and 24-90 Vario elmarit does the job......often though, the ideal combo is just the MP, the 35 and a pocket with a few rolls of PanF........the MP is such a joy to use I wouldn't get too bogged down on lenses and as long as you have your 35, you are set !

to be honest, the Tri-Elmar-elmar's place is looking dodgy due to the lack of use and I might end up selling it too.....kit is too expensive to keep for sentimental reasons....all has to earn its place in my bag!....

Edited August 23, 2021 by johntobias
added a bit

[alainD]

I recently started film again, with a brand new black paint MP. I decided to pair it with a 35 Summicron v4 and a 50 Summilux v2 (pre-asph).

I’m quite happy with this set-up.

I use my modern lenses on the M10R.

Alain

[johntobias]

If you plan on some megapixel body in the future and want to use the glass on both, then yes, apt etc is worth it but to be honest, M lenses are so bloody amazing  on the SL2, you are chasing rainbows.....you could have a nice 50 lux and 35 cron for the price of an app 35!  Film has so many other parameters!  (did I mention Pyro510 developer?).  whatever you do...if it aint your livelihood, remember to have fun and not sweat the details!

 

[logan2z]

I haven't been shooting film nearly as long as many here.  But when I bought my M-A in 2017 I went with a 35/2.4 Summarit as my first Leica lens (I've since added an M4 as a second body).  I shot with it exclusively for nearly four years and only recently added a 50mm Summicron v5 and a 28mm Elmarit ASPH.  I've rarely used the 35mm since buying the 50 and 28, the latter two seem like the perfect combo for my needs.

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[Giguchan]

Hi all,

  Thank you  for the all of the replies.

  I will read and take all of the information and make a decision.. I won't be getting the Body until  Christmas - or later.

It will give me  some time to properly  put away for it.  I am excited though. It's good that i came here  for some help. I was relying on YT videos waay too much!

I must say that spending a good part of the day today  looking at lenses(instead of working)  I have come to the conclusion that  an APO SC  would be Overkill  for Film.  For the price of ONE i could probably  find a 35 AND a 50  F2 and cover everything i could possible want.

 Once again  thanks for all of the replies.

Edited August 24, 2021 by Giguchan

[Giguchan]

21 hours ago, Topsy said:

I have an MP and 10 lenses. 😄 That said I also have an M2 and 3 M9s..........

That's a lotta Glass!!  I'll have to limit my self  to 2  MAYBE 3  but that's pushing it.