Voigtlander 28mm Ultron ASPH Type II

[sergiomarried]

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32 minutes ago, LarsHP said:

Hmmm. Maybe the Leica lens will make more sense for him for side by side comparisons, since his audience will rather see a given lens compared to a Leica lens than a Voigtländer lens.

For actual and practical image quality, I would prefer the Ultron II in almost all cases except vignetting wide open. That point may be more important for some than sharpness (anywhere in the frame), for instance.

Ideally, Cosina should have gone for a larger front lens element, but they didn't. The same could perhaps be said about the 35mm Summilux-M Asph which vignette about as much as the Ultron II. 

Lot of mention about the Ultron V2 vignette wide open... Is it that much of an issue on digital files in real life? Easy to remove on post as usual with other lenses? I tend to actually like some natural vignette... depends on subject and purpose of course

[Product Details]

More about Voigtlander 28 mm F2.0 Ultron Aspherical

Available at Amazon and B&H Photo Video

[lct]

3 hours ago, sergiomarried said:

Lot of mention about the Ultron V2 vignette wide open... Is it that much of an issue on digital files in real life? 

For jpeg shooters it depends on tastes, for raw shooters it is not a problem at all. 
M11, CV 28/2 coded as Leica 28/2, f/2.
(details in exif data)

Sans vignetting correction in PP:
https://photos.smugmug.com/Diverse/n-QFBj4/Leica-M11-CV-272-asph/i-Qpjmjps/0/3eb866bb/X4/M1002963_ps-X4.jpg

With vignetting correction in PP:
https://photos.smugmug.com/Diverse/n-QFBj4/Leica-M11-CV-272-asph/i-Hf95zWF/0/67109c1c/X4/M1002963_vig_ps-X4.jpg

 

[intangiblethings]

I just picked one up and so far have only run it through the M10-P. The vignetting is pretty noticeable but super easy to correct. 

A bit annoyed because I waited and waited for a second-hand copy to show up on my local version of Craigslist. I couldn't wait any longer and purchased a gray market version from Japan (without an international warranty) as I needed it and then low and behold a version pops up literally a week later and $50 USD cheaper haha. 

Regarding the Summicron vs. Ultron ii debate, I always tend to lean into the option that's either best price/performance or best size/performance. The Ultron fits the second bucket for me. 

[genji]

6 hours ago, LarsHP said:

Hmmm. Maybe the Leica lens will make more sense for him for side by side comparisons, since his audience will rather see a given lens compared to a Leica lens than a Voigtländer lens.

For actual and practical image quality, I would prefer the Ultron II in almost all cases except vignetting wide open. That point may be more important for some than sharpness (anywhere in the frame), for instance.

Ideally, Cosina should have gone for a larger front lens element, but they didn't. The same could perhaps be said about the 35mm Summilux-M Asph which vignette about as much as the Ultron II. 

To the contrary, I believe *his* audience would rather see a given lens compared to a Voigtlander lens because they are far less likely to own or want to buy a Leica lens. But who knows? If I hadn’t settled on a Lux + Elmarit 28mm combo, like Fred I’d definitely have replaced my Ultron with a Summicron.

“Ideally, Cosina should have gone for a larger front lens element, but they didn't” is a statement that could be applied to many other lens properties apart from front element size. Cosina’s kitsch imitations of vintage lens barrels consistently undermine the excellence of their optical designs.

[sergiomarried]

9 hours ago, genji said:

To the contrary, I believe *his* audience would rather see a given lens compared to a Voigtlander lens because they are far less likely to own or want to buy a Leica lens. But who knows? If I hadn’t settled on a Lux + Elmarit 28mm combo, like Fred I’d definitely have replaced my Ultron with a Summicron.

“Ideally, Cosina should have gone for a larger front lens element, but they didn't” is a statement that could be applied to many other lens properties apart from front element size. Cosina’s kitsch imitations of vintage lens barrels consistently undermine the excellence of their optical designs.

Nothing beats real life experience and since I can't imagine having myself the chance of owning these 2 lenses (Lux and Elmarit), would you mind commenting about what are your personal conclusions or experiences beyond the obvious size and aperture differences please? I've shortly tried them on store but can't hardly make real judgments out of that test... I guess you have the Elmarit Asph? Thanks!

[LarsHP]

18 hours ago, sergiomarried said:

Lot of mention about the Ultron V2 vignette wide open... Is it that much of an issue on digital files in real life? Easy to remove on post as usual with other lenses? I tend to actually like some natural vignette... depends on subject and purpose of course

Vignetting impacts exposure, which on digital is easily corrected (with increased noise as a penalty), and bokeh. The bokeh, or the character of blur, isn't possible to correct, at least not without using image manipulation. Bokeh balls will become ovals or "cats eye" shaped.

However, in the 1m to infinity range, the amount of blur will be limited with a 28mm f/2 lens, so the issue is of less importance to me (and most photographers, I expect). 

[LarsHP]

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12 hours ago, genji said:

To the contrary, I believe *his* audience would rather see a given lens compared to a Voigtlander lens because they are far less likely to own or want to buy a Leica lens. But who knows? (...)

I expect Fred Miranda to know. I expect people like to see a comparison with a super expensive benchmark lens, even if that benchmark isn't the best in most categories. The fact that it may be far beyond the readers budget is not problematic, on the contrary. The reader will be able to compare a given lens with the "exotic" one and have an idea of what they are missing or gaining without having to buy it. That's also one of the main reasons why people search for reviews on the internet. 

Edited June 19, 2022 by LarsHP

[lct]

Super expensive... You mean more than $40k? (cine Summilux 29) . Just kidding but aside from its smaller size, there is little reason to buy the Ultron if one can afford the Summicron to be honest . 

 

[jaapv]

32 minutes ago, LarsHP said:

Bokeh balls will become ovals or "cats eye" shaped.

That is coma. Bokeh balls will become rings or take the shape of the aperture.

[jaapv]

On 6/17/2022 at 9:00 AM, hmzimelka said:

One thing I have noticed over the 35mm Ultron is more purple fringing in very high contrast areas  areas

Which obviously is a non-issue on the M10M.

[hmzimelka]

27 minutes ago, jaapv said:

That is coma. Bokeh balls will become rings or take the shape of the aperture.

The irregular shape of off axis OOF discs (cat eye or rugby ball shape) is caused by the optical vignetting of the lens. The lens seems to have little coma, like sagittal coma flare. Or am I misunderstanding something? 

Edited June 19, 2022 by hmzimelka

[hmzimelka]

17 minutes ago, jaapv said:

Which obviously is a non-issue on the M10M.

Yes and no. The fringing still exists, just that it's monochromatic and still reduces edge contrast around the same areas affected. Visually far less objectionable in monochrome. 

[lct]

The shape of bokeh balls can be affected by coma of course. Easy to check on ancient lenses, less so on modern ones fortunately. Never seen coma artefacts out of the Ultron 28 so far but i'm no reviewer.

[Ouroboros]

On 6/18/2022 at 11:58 AM, genji said:

Lens preferences are highly idiosyncratic. A few weeks ago I was given the opportunity to purchase a copy of the special edition Black Matte Summicron 28mm ASPH II, used it a couple of times, and sold it for what I paid because I didn't like the built-in hood, the matte black finish, and the air of preciousness that it exuded. I got an Elmarit 28mm ASPH II to pair with my Summilux 28mm and am much happier.

A definite contender for the most idiosyncratic reason I've ever seen for selling a lens! 

 

[jaapv]

2 hours ago, hmzimelka said:

The irregular shape of off axis OOF discs (cat eye or rugby ball shape) is caused by the optical vignetting of the lens. The lens seems to have little coma, like sagittal coma flare. Or am I misunderstanding something? 

You are right that there are more reasons for this type of distortion, astigmatism can play a role as well. 

[LarsHP]

3 hours ago, jaapv said:

That is coma. Bokeh balls will become rings or take the shape of the aperture.

You are confusing things here. Try a net search, and you'll see I'm right.

Coma is a different optical issue that happens with points of light that are in focus. When referring to bokeh balls, we are talking about points of light that are blurred heavily. When these are near the corner, and the lens is shot wide open, the bokeh ball won't be circular, but oval or like a cat's eye.

BTW: The Ultron II is excellent regarding coma. It is gone already at f/2.4.

[LarsHP]

3 hours ago, lct said:

Super expensive... You mean more than $40k? (cine Summilux 29) . Just kidding but aside from its smaller size, there is little reason to buy the Ultron if one can afford the Summicron to be honest . 

 

We obviously disagree. I owned the Summicron Asph II and sold it, because the Ultron II was clearly better overall. If I thought the Leica lens was better, I would of course not sell it.

[LarsHP]

3 hours ago, hmzimelka said:

The irregular shape of off axis OOF discs (cat eye or rugby ball shape) is caused by the optical vignetting of the lens. The lens seems to have little coma, like sagittal coma flare. Or am I misunderstanding something? 

Precisely, you didn't misunderstand anything.

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[lct]

4 hours ago, LarsHP said:

We obviously disagree. I owned the Summicron Asph II and sold it, because the Ultron II was clearly better overall. If I thought the Leica lens was better, I would of course not sell it.

Different feeling here indeed. My copy of the Ultron is more contrasty than the Summicron with more color fringing and also a longer focal length. Not a big deal but i won't compare the Ultron to the Summicron then, rather to the Elmarit asph v1 (no experience with v2) given its compact size. As much as i like it, i don't use much the latter on the digital CL since i own the Ultron and this is quite an achievement for a lens that affordable IMHO. YMMV.

[LarsHP]

10 hours ago, lct said:

Different feeling here indeed. My copy of the Ultron is more contrasty than the Summicron with more color fringing and also a longer focal length. Not a big deal but i won't compare the Ultron to the Summicron then, rather to the Elmarit asph v1 (no experience with v2) given its compact size. As much as i like it, i don't use much the latter on the digital CL since i own the Ultron and this is quite an achievement for a lens that affordable IMHO. YMMV.

We agree that there may be a good reason to think of the Ultron II as an alternative to the 28mm Elmarit-M Asph II as well because of how small the Voigtländer lens is. Even though the Ultron is an f/2 lens in the center, it vignettes in a manner that I would often not use it wide open at longer focus distances, but rather stop it down to f/2.4. From that point of view, it sits between the Summicron and Elmarit. 

For reference, I think it may be helpful to add that the Ultron II vignettes less at f/4 and onwards than the Summicron.