CL2 delayed.. anyone thought to buy an S5?

[Simone_DF]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

If anybody is interested, my S5 is for sale in the classifieds section of the forum.

Long story short, I recently got a S5 and a SL2S and decided to keep the latter

[elambo]

I was at the Beverly Hills dealer over the weekend and they said that they weren't familiar with any CL2 on the immediate horizon, though they admitted that it could be announced at any time, or not at all.

[SoCalLeicanator]

On 6/14/2021 at 1:56 PM, elambo said:

I was at the Beverly Hills dealer over the weekend and they said that they weren't familiar with any CL2 on the immediate horizon, though they admitted that it could be announced at any time, or not at all.

Leica DC said the same.  Man, I have to admit a sinking feeling when I look at my TL lens lineup (18,11-23,23,35,55-135) and think about the system being abandoned.  I am all in!

 

[Le Chef]

2 minutes ago, SoCalLeicanator said:

Leica DC said the same.  Man, I have to admit a sinking feeling when I look at my TL lens lineup (18,11-23,23,35,55-135) and think about the system being abandoned.  I am all in!

 

At the end of the day you have a camera that works well, produces great images and can work with a wide range of lenses. If no one had suggested a CL2 would you be bothered?

[SoCalLeicanator]

Just now, Le Chef said:

At the end of the day you have a camera that works well, produces great images and can work with a wide range of lenses. If no one had suggested a CL2 would you be bothered?

Eventually, but when I bought the camera in 2019 my gut said the upgrade would come in 2022, 5 years after the introduction ( there is no rhyme or reason to this at all).  So, if it's 2023 and no upgrade there would be a little bother, yes. . .  Also, I would like IBIS, especially for the 55-135, although some techinique modifications have lead to many fewer missed shots. 

[jaapv]

Has nobody considered that there is a worldwide chip shortage, especially high efficiency new types? 

[Kim Dahl]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

14 hours ago, jaapv said:

Has nobody considered that there is a worldwide chip shortage, especially high efficiency new types? 

I think Leica - in respect of the one who has invested a lot of money in TL lenses - could give a hint that something is on the way or not.  Otherwise sales will stop I think.  I would like to invest in CL TL - along with my Leica M - if I knew a little about what would happen.

[Le Chef]

1 hour ago, Kim Dahl said:

I think Leica - in respect of the one who has invested a lot of money in TL lenses - could give a hint that something is on the way or not.  Otherwise sales will stop I think.  I would like to invest in CL TL - along with my Leica M - if I knew a little about what would happen.

You also have to consider ADs wanting to clear any CLs out of their stock and for Leica to clear any remaining CL’s out of the distribution system. And we don’t know how many months of supply there is in the system. Unless you have product that’s simply stopped moving it’s in Leica’s interest to see it cleared out at the highest price possible. I would be surprised if we saw anything before September and more likely Spring 22.

[Simone_DF]

I'd be interested in getting a CL2 if it ticks all the boxes like IBIS, a decent image processor, proper AF etc. but at the same time I'm wary of no new lens released in 4 years. If Leica doesn't show more committment to the system, I won't buy a CL2 knowing that it has no future and will go the way of the dodo.

[Le Chef]

While Leica has not released new lenses, Panasonic and Sigma certainly have. There are more than enough choices out there to satisfy. If some lenses are missing which new economically viable lenses would you like to see Leica launch?

As an aside maybe someone could look at a timeline of when and how often Leica launched new M lenses over the history of the model. Were there years when no new lens models were launched I wonder? Yet here we are with the M10 still going strong and an M11 somewhere around the corner.

Edited June 17, 2021 by Le Chef

[lct]

20 minutes ago, Le Chef said:

As an aside maybe someone could look at a timeline of when and how often Leica launched new M lenses over the history of the model. Were there years when no new lens models were launched I wonder?

Every M lens is supposed to last 10 years at least (did not check) but most focal lengths and apertures are covered already between 16mm and 135mm which is not the case with TL lenses. Now how many people are prepared to purchase expensive APS-C lenses for the CL really? Too few for Leica to launch several new models i suspect given that Panasonic and Sigma can provide excellent substitutes for less.

[jaapv]

15 minutes ago, lct said:

Were there years when no new lens models were launched I wonder?

Plenty.

[Le Chef]

My point about M lenses was not longevity but when they were launched. Did they launch a new M lens every year? Were there years when no new M lenses were launched? The point is that just because Leica has not launched new TL lenses for four years doesn’t mean they have given up. Correlation does not equal causation.

As to extreme lenses like 16mm, Leica do have the TL 11-23 which is regarded by a number of people to be an exceptional lens. Who would want let’s say a faster 11mm APSC format lens? And what (significant) premium would they be prepared to pay for it in terms of price and weight?

Edited June 17, 2021 by Le Chef

[lct]

 

8 minutes ago, Le Chef said:

My point about M lenses was not longevity but when they were launched. Did they launch a new M lens every year?

Never happened i guess but you know it already don't you. Point is are there enough people to purchase expensive APS-C lenses. But again you know the answer i suspect .

[jaapv]

2 hours ago, Le Chef said:

Did they launch a new M lens every year? Were there years when no new M lenses were launched?

No and yes. Leica only launches a new lens when they see a need and when they have developed it to their satisfaction. For instance, the APO-Summicron took eight years, as the mechanical production had to be refined to match the optical design. And even then it took a marketing decision to bring it out. Other manufacturers have a habit of throwing any number of lenses against the wall each year and see if they stick.

[Simone_DF]

2 hours ago, Le Chef said:

While Leica has not released new lenses, Panasonic and Sigma certainly have. There are more than enough choices out there to satisfy. If some lenses are missing which new economically viable lenses would you like to see Leica launch?

As an aside maybe someone could look at a timeline of when and how often Leica launched new M lenses over the history of the model. Were there years when no new lens models were launched I wonder? Yet here we are with the M10 still going strong and an M11 somewhere around the corner.

Since when Panasonic has APS-C lenses? 

Sigma is releasing lenses for APS-C only because it has to swap the lens mount from the Sony version, not because it's committed to the CL. For them the APS-C mount is just an afterthought. 

M lenses are a different beast althogether, because you can also use native M mount lenses from 60 years ago, and there's plenty to choose from. In fact, you have the opposite problem, choosing between the various different variations of the focal lenght you want.

For me the writing is already on the wall for the CL line, four years of radio silence lens wise, while at the same time releasing absurd lenses like the Thambar is a very bad sign. But I'll be happy to be proven wrong, and to buy a CL2 with some new lenses, should these materialize for real.

[jaapv]

What lenses should be brought out? As far as I can see the lineup is pretty complete including the Sigma and Panasonic options.  A lens for the CL does not NEED to be APSC. Otherwise one could not use M lenses either...
I would say you are on rather thin ice to make this a touchstone for a system. A bit of Sony thinking, to be honest - "we must churn out new products all the time, any product whatever, to keep our customers spending"...

[Simone_DF]

15 minutes ago, jaapv said:

What lenses should be brought out? As far as I can see the lineup is pretty complete including the Sigma and Panasonic options.  A lens for the CL does not NEED to be APSC. Otherwise one could not use M lenses either...
I would say you are on rather thin ice to make this a touchstone for a system. A bit of Sony thinking, to be honest - "we must churn out new products all the time, any product whatever, to keep our customers spending"...

So, a full frame camera is too big and lenses are too big, but now magically they aren't?

M lenses are a niche and manual focus. For M lenses use on APS-C I'd go Fuji any day.

Edited June 17, 2021 by Simone_DF

[jaapv]

They are not always big. The 100-400 for instance is about the smallest around in its focal length. I don’t see much difference to the Panaleica MFT one, for instance. 

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[Kim Dahl]

Well, i hope the optimistic tones are right.  I really do.  Because it's a good system. CL2 and new optics.  
But I have bought a lot of Leica equipment (M) and my wallet is closed in terms of APSC until Leica comes with a clear message what they want with that system. I have TL2 and TL35 and am really happy with it.  But would like to upgrade if I was sure APSC also has a Leica future.

Edited June 17, 2021 by Kim Dahl