New M lens development?

[Lelmer]

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39 minutes ago, Steven said:

My 28 Lux is very stiff to focus compared to all my other, less modern lenses. My Lux 35 APSH (pre fle) is like butter compared to the FLE. 

The focusing of my Lux 35 FLE is just perfect...matter of taste

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[wlaidlaw]

Jaap, 

My 50/1.4 ASPH  came back from its warranty trip to Solms for the stiff focusing problem, I suspect untouched. That was at the beginning of 2007, when all was not well with Solms CS. My 90/2.8 Elmarit-M went for 6 bit coding and came back 7 weeks later - uncoded! My M8, which was constantly locking up, had to make three trips to Solms before it was sorted, with a replaced electronic suite. I gave up and swapped the ASPH for a 50mm ZM Planar and a 28-35-50 e49 MATE-II. Now with the excellent 50 Summilux IIISE, I feel zero need or desire for a 50 ASPH and the 50 ZM Planar is (according to the late Erwin Puts) near enough as good in every day use as the 50 APO, that I might as well keep the money in my pocket, (so that I can spend it on a 35 APO instead )

Wilson

[jaapv]

At the time of my repar,  2007 as well, it was handled by Andrea. I suspect that she stood behind the technician brandishing a whip.

[wlaidlaw]

1 hour ago, jaapv said:

Maybe more run in?

No the 35 ASPH Summilux was smooth from new. It is not unreasonable to expect a non-FLE lens to be smoother and lighter to focus than an FLE lens, as you are only having to move one sleeve/helicoid instead of two or three coupled helicoids. Stiff focusing I can just about live with but jerky I can't. 

Wilson

[evikne]

I have owned two 35 Lux FLE and four (!) 50 Lux ASPH. None of them had sticky focus rings, but smoothest of them all was the 50 Lux ASPH Black Chrome.

[pgk]

2 hours ago, Steven said:

While many are predicting the 35 summaron as the next classic remake, i have a surprising early info on a possible Summilux 35 pre Asph V1 remake. It would make much more sense than a summaron.

Using modern glass and reformulated version of the 35mm pre-aspheric Summilux which was small like the original but which performed somewhat better (although not up to the Asph version) would be a very interesting updated classic.

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3 hours ago, Steven said:

While many are predicting the 35 summaron as the next classic remake, i have a surprising early info on a possible Summilux 35 pre Asph V1 remake. It would make much more sense than a summaron. The summaron can be bought easily on the used market for a cheap price. The Lux V1, however is very rare in silver, and even more in black. 

It could also be seen as a direct attack (omitting the price difference) at one of the best selling M lenses of the past years: the Nokton Classic. The nokton stole it’s  (cosmetic) design from the Lux 35 v1. Both the silver and the black version, although the Silver nokton is a limited edition and is more rare than the black. In terms of rendering, it’s a mix between the Lux V1 and the Lux V5/6 from leica. 

That would be a great choice in my view.i had better start saving just in case.

[Danner]

On 5/23/2021 at 9:23 AM, evikne said:

There has long been a rumor about a 50mm APO Summilux with closer focusing capabilities:

https://leicarumors.com/2019/05/06/the-latest-leica-rumors-sl2-m10x-m-with-evf-apo-summilux-m-50mm-f-1-4-asph-lens.aspx/

 

16 hours ago, Steven said:

This is going to cost some dollars 😂 💸 

My prayer is that the scurry to fund the purchase of such a lens will drive down the prices of 'lesser' Summilux, for the bourgeoisie, like me.

[T25UFO]

59 minutes ago, Danner said:

 

There has long been a rumor about a 50mm APO Summilux with closer focusing capabilities:

https://leicarumors.com/2019/05/06/the-latest-leica-rumors-sl2-m10x-m-with-evf-apo-summilux-m-50mm-f-1-4-asph-lens.aspx/

Well, the SL2 rumour came true eventually.  The other two rumours were pure click bait speculation. 

[horosu]

9 hours ago, Steven said:

While many are predicting the 35 summaron as the next classic remake, i have a surprising early info on a possible Summilux 35 pre Asph V1 remake. It would make much more sense than a summaron. The summaron can be bought easily on the used market for a cheap price. The Lux V1, however is very rare in silver, and even more in black.  

I honestly think that'd be a very smart move from Leica: together with the Noctilux-M 50 a classic reissue that would go against the sharpness über alles concept and focus instead on classic lenses that produce mellow/beautiful/"rounded" images. It they would make it with a 0.7 m MFD, they have a winner

Edited May 25, 2021 by horosu

[Jeff S]

I’ve told the story before, but Leica NJ failed to solve the ‘sticky’ focus issue with my standard 50 Summilux ASPH (I spoke directly with the technician at the time), but DAG fixed it immediately and had it back to me in a few days for 90 bucks, including shipping.  It’s still focusing smoothly years later.

Jeff

[Guest]

I believe the classic lens remakes have been virtually exact copies of the original design but with modern coatings.

Anything other than that makes the whole concept absurd and pointless in my view.

[evikne]

I wish Leica dared to make new lenses, not only remakes, that are compact, light and as good as it gets within those limits. The remakes also inherit all the weaknesses (for better or worse), but I am sure it's possible with the newest technology, and not restricted to the old design, to make those lenses significantly better today. But they don't need to be "perfect", because that will inevitably make them bigger, and that's not what we want, is it? 

To me, a big problem when choosing lenses is that the newest ones, in addition to be large and heavy, often look boring, while the older lenses often suffer from annoying weaknesses. So something in between would have been just perfect!

Edited May 26, 2021 by evikne

[adan]

1 hour ago, steve 1959 said:

I believe the classic lens remakes have been virtually exact copies of the original design but with modern coatings.

And in some cases, different glass. Ideally that matches the specs of the originals (Abbé number, index of refraction, etc.) as closely as possible, but without environmentally-unfriendly additives such as lead or thorium.

.................

There are certain "boxes" around what Leica can do in terms of new M lenses.

I think Leica has an institutional reluctance to make an M lens that cannot be used on previous M cameras dating back to 1954. That means it cannot be totally dependent on electronic viewing. And can function at least as well as, say, a 1970 lens with a) the original 3/6 frameline sets (50/90/135, 35/50/90, 28/35/50/75/90/135), or traditional optical accesory finders, b ) a size that does not block the rangefinder windows, and c) will RF-focus reliably in the "normal" range of infinity to 0.7m.

That means - no 40 or 45mm or 60mm or 32mm lenses; no 135mm f/1.4; no 180-400 "M" zoom; probably nothing longer than 135 at all. Although it's a gray area - a 180mm f/5.6 with an external finder might make the cut - but would it actually be worth the cost and hassle (for either Leica or its customers) when one can simply crop a 40Mpixel 135mm image to a 22.5Mpixel "180" image?

A 15mm prime lens? Possible. Leica has had (or can recreate) a 15mm optical finder: http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-wiki.en/index.php/File:Hologen.jpg

A 35mm Noctilux, almost certainly (with the caveat that it has to be "good enough" without being so big it blocks the RF/VF of, say, an M2).

Extended scale- or EVF-focusing? Sure. Leica has been doing that on occasion since the 1960s.

.................

I have heard that Peter Karbe is not all that thrilled with reinventing the wheel with the revival lenses. Sure, "the boss" wants it, and it pays the bills (maybe), and it keeps the computers and designers busy, and there is no doubt some intellectual entertainment in figuring out what Berek or Mandler were up to. But it is not exactly expanding the envelope of optical progress.

[Michael Geschlecht]

31 minutes ago, adan said:

And in some cases, different glass. Ideally that matches the specs of the originals (Abbé number, index of refraction, etc.) as closely as possible, but without environmentally-unfriendly additives such as lead or thorium.

.................

There are certain "boxes" around what Leica can do in terms of new M lenses.

I think Leica has an institutional reluctance to make an M lens that cannot be used on previous M cameras dating back to 1954. That means it cannot be totally dependent on electronic viewing. And can function at least as well as, say, a 1970 lens with a) the original 3/6 frameline sets (50/90/135, 35/50/90, 28/35/50/75/90/135), or traditional optical accesory finders, b ) a size that does not block the rangefinder windows, and c) will RF-focus reliably in the "normal" range of infinity to 0.7m.

That means - no 40 or 45mm or 60mm or 32mm lenses; no 135mm f/1.4; no 180-400 "M" zoom; probably nothing longer than 135 at all. Although it's a gray area - a 180mm f/5.6 with an external finder might make the cut - but would it actually be worth the cost and hassle (for either Leica or its customers) when one can simply crop a 40Mpixel 135mm image to a 22.5Mpixel "180" image?

A 15mm prime lens? Possible. Leica has had (or can recreate) a 15mm optical finder: http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-wiki.en/index.php/File:Hologen.jpg

A 35mm Noctilux, almost certainly (with the caveat that it has to be "good enough" without being so big it blocks the RF/VF of, say, an M2).

Extended scale- or EVF-focusing? Sure. Leica has been doing that on occasion since the 1960s.

.................

I have heard that Peter Karbe is not all that thrilled with reinventing the wheel with the revival lenses. Sure, "the boss" wants it, and it pays the bills (maybe), and it keeps the computers and designers busy, and there is no doubt some intellectual entertainment in figuring out what Berek or Mandler were up to. But it is not exactly expanding the envelope of optical progress.

Hello Andy,

At Photokina, in the early 1970's, Leitz had the 180mm F3.4 Apo-Telyt, in prototype form, fitted out with a set of "goggles" similar to the "goggles" used on the 135mm F2.8 Elmarit. It worked fine on an M3.

The magnification in the 135mm F2.8 Elmarit "goggles" has to be 1.5X for it to be able to use the 90mm frame lines in the viewfinder accurately. That would mean that the 180 F3.4 Apo-Telyt would need a set of lenses with a magnification of approximately 1.333X in order to fill the 135mm frame lines accurately.

Best Regards,

Michael

[Lelmer]

7 hours ago, evikne said:

I wish Leica dared to make new lenses, not only remakes, that are compact, light and as good as it gets within those limits. The remakes also inherit all the weaknesses (for better or worse), but I am sure it's possible with the newest technology, and not restricted to the old design, to make those lenses significantly better today. But they don't need to be "perfect", because that will inevitably make them bigger, and that's not what we want, is it? 

To me, a big problem when choosing lenses is that the newest ones, in addition to be large and heavy, often look boring, while the older lenses often suffer from annoying weaknesses. So something in between would have been just perfect!

Fully agree

[WvE]

Never imagined I would do this, but I recently 'shelved' my 50mm Lux BC for the Nokton 50mm 1.5 asph II, it's such a great little lens.   

[oldwino]

12 hours ago, evikne said:

To me, a big problem when choosing lenses is that the newest ones, in addition to be large and heavy, often look boring, while the older lenses often suffer from annoying weaknesses. So something in between would have been just perfect!

You should buy Mandler era lenses. 

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[evikne]

31 minutes ago, oldwino said:

You should buy Mandler era lenses. 

That's exactly what I do. I have the latest pre-ASPH versions of the 35 and 50 mm Summilux. But I think there is still plenty of room for improvements. 

For the 35 Summilux I mainly wish:

• Better wide open performance
• 0.7 m MFD

50 Summilux wish list:

• Better flare resistance
• Less focus shift

[evikne]

13 minutes ago, Steven said:

You should try the Nokton Classic 1.4 MC. You can buy it on Amazon and return it within 30 days for a full refund... 

I actually had it for a short while. But I soon discovered that I couldn't live with anything else than a real Leica lens!