Zeiss 21mm f/2.8 ZM Biogon on M10 ?

[Nachtmsk]

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Hi,

I'm looking to get a 21 mm lens for my M10. I know Leica has an excellent 21mm, at a little over 3k. But I am currently considering The Zeiss Biogon, which is about half the price and based on specs, holds it's own very well.

Has anyone used this on their M10 and if so, are you happy with the results and handling of the lens?

Thanks

Mike

 

[Cobram]

11 hours ago, Nachtmsk said:

Hi,

I'm looking to get a 21 mm lens for my M10. I know Leica has an excellent 21mm, at a little over 3k. But I am currently considering The Zeiss Biogon, which is about half the price and based on specs, holds it's own very well.

Has anyone used this on their M10 and if so, are you happy with the results and handling of the lens?

Thanks

Mike

 

Consider also 21/4 Color Skopar. Pocket lens with great sharpness.

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[AandW]

I made the same decision you are considering as 21mm is one of my lesser used focus lengths.   I like the lens and don't regret the decision.  As it is my only non coded lens the M10 can set to the manual profile  (11134) automatically.  A big convenience of M10 over M240 / M9 where I would sometimes forget to change profile.   One minor inconvenience is the aperture ring has third stop increments.  More precision than I need and since I often adjust aperture by feel it is something you need to remember when using.  Focus is smooth with the right level of resistance .  Different shape focus tab (a bump) is not as nice as Leica lens but is not really an issue for me in use. I have had mine 9 years and I have had no wear and tear issues.

[Nachtmsk]

4 hours ago, Cobram said:

Consider also 21/4 Color Skopar. Pocket lens with great sharpness.

I have considered that, but honestly thought that something so inexpensive could not be worthwhile to consider. I know it's f/4 as compared to f/2.8 but still I see it for sale on amazon for must under $500. That seems crazy cheap.

On a related note, I also remember reading someplace (don't know where) that some wide lens didn't work well on some Leica digital cameras . Not sure why. I have to look that up.

So you have used the Skopar and are happy with it?

[Guest Nowhereman]

@Nachtmsk - I've always liked the Elmarit 21 ASPH f/2.8, as you can see from these pictures,. I think it should be a good deal cheaper than the Super-Elmar-M 21mm f/3.4 ASPH, but don't know it's availability these days.
_______________________________________
Frog Leaping photobook and Instagram

[TomB_tx]

13 minutes ago, Nachtmsk said:

I have considered that, but honestly thought that something so inexpensive could not be worthwhile to consider. I know it's f/4 as compared to f/2.8 but still I see it for sale on amazon for must under $500. That seems crazy cheap.

On a related note, I also remember reading someplace (don't know where) that some wide lens didn't work well on some Leica digital cameras . Not sure why. I have to look that up.

So you have used the Skopar and are happy with it?

I bought the Skopar 21 for my M6 & M9 as I don't use such a wide lens often, and the price and small size made it ideal for me. It packs in a corner of my bag for the times I want it.

When manually coded as a Leica 21 there is only a slight edge coloration on my M10 that is usually not noticed, unless shooting a plain white wall. The M10 is better in this regard than my M9, which I also found acceptable. I believe the typ 240 showed a bit more coloration. However, I may not be as color-sensitive as some folk...

[Cobram]

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@Nachtmsk , @TomB_tx I think I read somewhere there was sample variation which also affects how pronounced is magenta corner effect.

My copy is very sharp and produces sometimes (very few cases) magenta effect on my M-E220 camera. I personally think Elmarit 21 ASPH is the better lens. @crony can testify as he used both. 

BUT for 300 EUR it is great. 

As I don't want to post two times same photos... here you can check links:

 

Color skopar flare (sometimes annoying)

Skopar B&W

 

Edited April 8, 2021 by Cobram

[250swb]

17 minutes ago, TomB_tx said:

I bought the Skopar 21 for my M6 & M9 as I don't use such a wide lens often, and the price and small size made it ideal for me. It packs in a corner of my bag for the times I want it.

When manually coded as a Leica 21 there is only a slight edge coloration on my M10 that is usually not noticed, unless shooting a plain white wall. The M10 is better in this regard than my M9, which I also found acceptable. I believe the typ 240 showed a bit more coloration. However, I may not be as color-sensitive as some folk...

This is exactly what I find with the 21mm Skopar on my M10, and tbh the Skopar is may favourite 21mm lens across all my cameras (film and digital) and especially for B&W.

But I also have the 21mm 2.8 Biogon and it is the superior lens of the two, but I don't use it often enough, it's too big and heavy for a bag filler. The detail is crisp and sharp and the colour rendering is a little cooler than a Leica lens so there's nothing to complain about with the Biogon, if 21mm is a favourite focal length go for it, but if you want a light compact versatile lens to fill the wide end of the scale a Skopar is cheap and fun to use. 

[Printmaker]

I used the 21 Biogon for several years on my M8. It was a great lens but the focus was off. It was hardly noticeable at working apertures and normal distances but you could see it wide open close up . I sent it back to Zeiss for adjustment and it was returned a few months later still slightly off. I exchanged it for a Leica 21 SEM when Leica released this lens. As they say here in the islands: mo betta.

Odds are, I had a bad copy of the Biogon. It was probably dropped in shipping.

I originally wanted a 21 Skopar since 21mm is not a focal length I use very often. But there was a shortage of M lenses from all manufacturers when the M8 was released. I took the Biogon because it was available. The size, weight, sharpness, and color rendering were all pleasing with the Biogon. But the SEM is a better lens. 

If the SEM is not in your budget, you will be happy with either the Biogon or the Skopar.

[Mauser98]

Hi, this is the only lens that I own that is not from Leica. It is my go to lens for landscape wide. Used it first with the 240 and now with the M10 I have zero complaints. I did get the f4.5 first and didn’t like that lens at all so upgraded.

[duoenboge]

I have a silver Biogon 21 and the 24 Elmar, so that I can compare these two lenses. Both lenses are excellent both optically and mechanically. The Biogon has two small advantages: focus range  starts at 0.5m and a brighter aperture. The Leica is smaller and has a excellent lens hood.

[hsteink]

Regarding Voigtländer 21 mm, I would highly prefer the 3.5/21mm Skopar over the 4.0/21mm.

The 3.5/21 has a newer lens design and does not deliver color cast, whereas the 4.0 has some color cast even with lens profile activated.

Just my experience on the M10...

[Harvard Kiwi]

I have been looking for a 21mm to complete my 3 lens kit (90mm and 50mm). The Skopar f4 initially appealed to me but after research I discovered it is better suited for the film bodies for which it was designed. The newer 21mm Skopar f3.5 is what you should be looking at on digital if you wish to go down the compact route. 

However, if you don't mind a larger lens, most seem to say the 21mm Biogon is a better choice. Matt Osborne (Mr Leica on his blog and YouTube) has reviewed both the Skopar f4 and the Biogon f2.8. His copy of the Biogon had a rattle so he understandably wasn't impressed with the build quality but I have never heard of another person with the same issue.

I'm considering the Biogon or potentially the 21mm Nokton. The latter is far bigger and heavier but I shoot a lot of low light so I may need the extra stops of light from time to time. 

[Ray Vonn]

11 minutes ago, Harvard Kiwi said:

I have never heard of another person with the same issue.

Absolutely agree.  I don't generally comment on YT videos but was moved to comment to Matt that (he was great btw).  The build's great, image output wonderful and it's not really big, mind you I'm probably saying that having previously used a Nikkor 20mm F1.8G, a fantastic lens but huge by comparison.

[astrostl]

DigLloyd demonstrated cyan color casting with the Biogon 21 on the M240, even with 21 profiles manually applied. Is that resolved with newer M bodies?

[Harvard Kiwi]

I bought the CV 21/4 for my M10 because it is slightly smaller than the 21/3.5, it was cheaper, and I wanted it in black.

While the f3.5 is better for digital sensors, I have no issues with colour casting on my M10 like I thought I would. I intended to only shoot B&W but am happy to say colour is absolutely fine. 

I've seen significant Italian flagging with the f4 on the M9 and M240 so I wouldn't recommend it on them although it can be fixed to an extent in post.

If looking at these lenses, the next thing you'll want to consider is a 21mm optical viewfinder. After much research, I settled on the Voigtlander 21/25 metal as my Visoflex 020 is just too big and drains my battery far too quickly. 

I hope this helps.

James

[norm_snyder]

I have, and continue to use, the 21mm f2.8 Zeiss Biogon on my M10 and M246 Monochrome.  I had used it previously on the M9.  Sharp, contrasty, no color cast or red edges.  Much better than the 21mm f4 Skopar I had owned some time ago.  I have previously owneed the 21mm f2.8 Elmarit pre-Asph, as well as the Aspheric version of the Elmarit and much prefer the Zeiss.  It’s smaller, sharper in the corners.  I don’t find it large or heavy and it’s part of a three lens kit along with 35 and 75mm Summicron.  It can be had used for as little as $800 US, and I see no reason to “upgrade” to something else.  

[LCL999]

I have the 25mm Biogon and am very happy with it. Super sharp, smooth focus ring.

If you order one it doesn't come with a lens hood. You need to order that seperately

 

[Harvard Kiwi]

My Voigtlander 21/25mm metal viewfinder arrived yesterday and I thought I'd post an update.

In comparison to the Visioflex 020, this thing is tiny! It looks a lot better on my M10 due to its size and being made of metal. It doesn't have a locking mechanism for the hot shoe but it is a nice, snug fit. Not too tight and not loose so I'm not concerned about it falling off.

Looking through the viewfinder blew me away! I knew I'd prefer an OVF to an EVF (and the 020 is poor by modern EVF standards) but I didn't expect it to be as bright and clear as it is. The world just looks better. I compared looking through the viewfinder with just looking at things in the real world and the world through the viewfinder was far more attractive. Everything just popped!

The frame lines are also clear with both the 21mm and 25mm lines being close to the edges. I haven't shot with it yet so I cannot say how accurate it is, but I'm sure it won't take long to adjust. 

I'm looking forward to walking around with it and my 21/4 this weekend and my battery should last a lot longer!

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[Ernstk]

I have the CV 21/4 and also an Elmarit M 21/2.8 (non asph), that I use on my M8 and M-P 240.

The Elmarit is a great lens. It's a Mandler design and renders beautifully with modern sensors. It can be picked up for less than £1000.

It's well worth considering. Below is a sample image on my M-P

Ernst

 

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Edited September 10, 2021 by Ernstk