Any S to Fuji GFX100s Comparisons?

[John Smith]

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3 hours ago, Jon Warwick said:

hi, it's an interesting comment. I think it's a bit more than that for me. For example, personally, I found the rendering of an SL APO lens to look different when I used it on a Panasonic S1R compared to when I used it on my SL2 (I preferred the latter, it looked gentler in its draw). So it's not just the lens rendering in isolation, I think it's more to do with whether I like the overall rendering of a given lens-sensor combo. Then too, whether the files are malleable enough to also get to a look that I like ....lighter contrast being key for me if I'm after a more "cinematic" look, for example. Finally, printing via various methods changes the rendering too for me a lot ...I find prints done on a Lambda printer to look more digital (and less pleasing for my taste) than on an inkjet like the Epson 11880 that is used at the same lab that does my prints.  So there's a lot to it across the whole chain that can influence the rendering, and the lens is just one (admittedly important) component.

Yes, I should have just written "rendering" instead of "lens rendering." 

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[ZHNL]

For landscape, I don’t know how we can talk about rendering. It is all about pixel and dynamic range. 

For wide aperture shooting or not deep DOF cases, I see difference clearly. none of Fuji or Hasselblad approaching S quality. So are any FF system out there. That is personal but it is all that matters for me
 

[Photon42]

On 3/13/2021 at 3:14 PM, BernardC said:

That's a funny thing about Fuji's system. On the one hand, owners are always telling us that the lenses are amazing. One the other hand, owners desperately want better lenses to put on their cameras. It seems contradictory, but perhaps someone can explain. It's especially weird with S lenses: focal lengths overlap Fuji's lenses, and the S lenses are more expensive. In a normal world, you would want to use the native lens 100% of the time, but there's something strange going on in the Fuji world. Perhaps people are starting to realize that it's very hard to get 100MP of information on a sensor, even with IBIS and every AF mode. The answer is the same as it's ever been: tripod, manual focus, shoot at dawn on a clear day (no heat haze), optimal apertures, camera movements, etc. That will get you a sharp picture, but not necessarily a compelling one.

You almost never hear that about the X1D, even though you can adapt lenses onto that platform. People seem happy with the lenses that Hasselblad provides.

It is not about Fuji owners buying S lenses, but S-Lens-Owners looking for an up-to-date body. It does not hurt it is a little less expensive. The X1D does not have an body-internal shutter and I do not think the design would even permit one. That does make lens adaptation rather useless for non-static and flash work.

My wish list:

#1 Leica should buy Hasselblad - they are certainly working on a proper successor of the X1D2 with a sensor with phase detection and maybe IBIS

#2 Hassy should sell lens adapters with a mechanical leaf shutter built-in - for their very own V lenses, but of course also for S-Lenses

Edited March 15, 2021 by Photon42

[frame-it]

1 hour ago, Photon42 said:

It is not about Fuji owners buying S lenses, but S-Lens-Owners looking for an up-to-date body. It does not hurt it is a little less expensive. The X1D does not have an body-internal shutter and I do not think the design would even permit one. That does make lens adaptation rather useless for non-static and flash work.

My wish list:

#1 Leica should buy Hasselblad - they are certainly working on a proper successor of the X1D2 with a sensor with phase detection and maybe IBIS

#2 Hassy should sell lens adapters with a mechanical leaf shutter built-in - for their very own V lenses, but of course also for S-Lenses

i thought Hasselblad is owned by DJI? they would probably never sell to Leica.

[helged]

2 minutes ago, frame-it said:

i thought Hasselblad is owned by DJI?

correct...

[xiaubauu2009]

2 hours ago, Photon42 said:

It is not about Fuji owners buying S lenses, but S-Lens-Owners looking for an up-to-date body. It does not hurt it is a little less expensive. The X1D does not have an body-internal shutter and I do not think the design would even permit one. That does make lens adaptation rather useless for non-static and flash work.

My wish list:

#1 Leica should buy Hasselblad - they are certainly working on a proper successor of the X1D2 with a sensor with phase detection and maybe IBIS

#2 Hassy should sell lens adapters with a mechanical leaf shutter built-in - for their very own V lenses, but of course also for S-Lenses

I don't understand why the 100mp is only a fuji thing? What kind of devil deal they signed with Sony???? I really wish the Hassy will have a 100mp body. The shutter is definitely not going to happen for X1 series due to the short flange that is design into the construct of the mount. Unless they started a new line completely. 

Edited March 15, 2021 by xiaubauu2009

[frame-it]

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15 minutes ago, xiaubauu2009 said:

I don't understand why the 100mp is only a fuji thing? What kind of devil deal they signed with Sony???? I really wish the Hassy will have a 100mp body. The shutter is definitely not going to happen for X1 series due to the short flange that is design into the construct of the mount. Unless they started a new line completely. 

who said the 100mp sensor is only for fuji ?

maybe the DJI Copy of the X1d will have the 100MP sensor

https://www.gizmodo.jp/2019/08/dji-mirrorless-camera-rumor.html

Edited March 15, 2021 by frame-it

[xiaubauu2009]

21 minutes ago, frame-it said:

who said the 100mp sensor is only for fuji ?

maybe the DJI Copy of the X1d will have the 100MP sensor

https://www.gizmodo.jp/2019/08/dji-mirrorless-camera-rumor.html

it's rumor no? and the GFX100 has been out for close to 2 years, and we hear nothing from the X1D series yet. Personally, I would rather have a smaller body MF, maybe the GFX100s is the answer, but who knows...

Edited March 15, 2021 by xiaubauu2009

[frame-it]

14 minutes ago, xiaubauu2009 said:

it's rumor no? and the GFX100 has been out for close to 2 years, and we hear nothing from the X1D series yet. Personally, I would rather have a smaller body MF, maybe the GFX100s is the answer, but who knows...

or Hassy could try and source this one > https://canon-cmos-sensors.com/canon-120mxs-cmos-sensor/

but Canon may not wanna sell to DJI.😃

Edited March 15, 2021 by frame-it

[plasticman]

On 3/14/2021 at 4:12 AM, xiaubauu2009 said:

in regards to the X1D not hearing anything about it is because it has no shutter and the Electronic shutter jello effect basically ruin the shots. So, it is because of its rubbish ness that you don’t hear about it. 

Sometimes on the Leica forum I feel I've fallen into some sort of parallel universe, where equipment discussions take on a surreal quality that's disconnected from real-life and real photography. Having recently bought an X1D to augment my mostly film-based equipment, the discussion in this thread is an example of what I'm talking about. 

Where my main hesitancy about the digital files the X1D produces hinges around that they are 'too perfect' - too detailed, sharp, free of any aberrations or faults, and somehow 'hyper-realistic' - the camera in this thread is somehow "rubbish". 

I agree that price/performance is going to favor Fuji in the long (or even medium) term. But on the other hand, we simply have to keep things in proportion. All these cameras far exceed amateurs' photographic needs now. Anyone who is a hobby photographer does not need anything better than any of these cameras provide.

The X1D certainly has its faults - mostly the auto-focus apparently (avoided if you use the lenses with manual focus, as I do - but I understand the frustration). But it's a beautifully small camera in use, and a joy to carry around. 

I tried the GFX-50R in-store a few months ago, and just found it a big clunky brick. I really didn't get the appeal, at all. Some previous person had also left the settings in a mess that I couldn't manage to get out of, so I was left with a really poor impression of the camera - which was probably in large part my own fault. I understand the new camera is smaller and easier to use, but I think there's a way to go before it fully competes in 'joy-of-use'.

As I've said before, I'm guessing all the other smaller manufacturers (like Hasselblad and Leica) have an uphill struggle in this small sector now. But I'm definitely hoping we're not left with just one manufacturer.

[xiaubauu2009]

4 minutes ago, plasticman said:

Sometimes on the Leica forum I feel I've fallen into some sort of parallel universe, where equipment discussions take on a surreal quality that's disconnected from real-life and real photography. Having recently bought an X1D to augment my mostly film-based equipment, the discussion in this thread is an example of what I'm talking about. 

Where my main hesitancy about the digital files the X1D produces hinges around that they are 'too perfect' - too detailed, sharp, free of any aberrations or faults, and somehow 'hyper-realistic' - the camera in this thread is somehow "rubbish". 

I agree that price/performance is going to favor Fuji in the long (or even medium) term. But on the other hand, we simply have to keep things in proportion. All these cameras far exceed amateurs' photographic needs now. Anyone who is a hobby photographer does not need anything better than any of these cameras provide.

The X1D certainly has its faults - mostly the auto-focus apparently (avoided if you use the lenses with manual focus, as I do - but I understand the frustration). But it's a beautifully small camera in use, and a joy to carry around. 

I tried the GFX-50R in-store a few months ago, and just found it a big clunky brick. I really didn't get the appeal, at all. Some previous person had also left the settings in a mess that I couldn't manage to get out of, so I was left with a really poor impression of the camera - which was probably in large part my own fault. I understand the new camera is smaller and easier to use, but I think there's a way to go before it fully competes in 'joy-of-use'.

As I've said before, I'm guessing all the other smaller manufacturers (like Hasselblad and Leica) have an uphill struggle in this small sector now. But I'm definitely hoping we're not left with just one manufacturer.

ohh, the menu system in Fuji is bit strange, never got really used to it if you started using other, all you need to know is that you don't touch anything other than selecting what kind of 'film' you want to use, and set the ISO to Auto... at least that's how I used it. Hahahaha. The most simple menu are always Leica's menu, you get used to it very easily. I think Canon/Nikon are more or less the same, being more complicated, and Sony even more so... and so on and so forth. Fujifilm, once you get use to it, it's very easy cause it's all about the emulsion simulation you choose... they are a film company after all...

[Jon Warwick]

I think most cameras have so many options within their menus that I think the similarities between the GFX100S and the SL2 (for example) are much greater than the differences, even if Leica is possibly a bit simpler. Once set to how I want it, they're all much the same for my use, and the Q button on the GFX100S gives a nice overview of the settings I've chosen.

Re the Fuji film simulations, I'm really liking having these "camera" profiles from Fuji to look at when processing RAWs ....a lot of very different looks / renderings as starting points for Raw files, which I'm finding excellent compared to just the starting point of the Adobe profiles of neutral / standard / landscape etc. It's not because I'm thinking that I'm trying to directly replicate any film specifically, but some of these film profiles are helping to give a starting point to some very good image quality due to the varying richness of depth of color. 

Edited March 15, 2021 by Jon Warwick

[tom0511]

vor 6 Stunden schrieb Photon42:

It is not about Fuji owners buying S lenses, but S-Lens-Owners looking for an up-to-date body. It does not hurt it is a little less expensive. The X1D does not have an body-internal shutter and I do not think the design would even permit one. That does make lens adaptation rather useless for non-static and flash work.

My wish list:

#1 Leica should buy Hasselblad - they are certainly working on a proper successor of the X1D2 with a sensor with phase detection and maybe IBIS

#2 Hassy should sell lens adapters with a mechanical leaf shutter built-in - for their very own V lenses, but of course also for S-Lenses

The best body if you want to use S lens on other body than S is the SL2. But what do you gain? Using the S lenses with contrast AF is louder and slower than using them on an S-body with phase AF. Are there really people who want to use the S lenses on a non S body (with all sacrifices)? If I was switching to a Fuji body I would probably also want to use Fuji lenses, because I assume they are the ones which work best together with the body. 

[basse]

Suppose we were a few years further on and the standard resolution was - let's say - 10 GP, a hundred times more than today. In addition, there would be a super-IBIS and it would be possible to photograph the darkness without noise. What would be then?
Would we be happy and only take photographs?

Or would we still be distracted by taking pictures? Maybe someone would get the crazy idea to take pictures in interesting daylight. Or just set the aperture, shutter speed, distance and ISO. Nothing more. The rest belongs to the good eye and the idea of telling a story with a photograph.
We already live in the future and all cameras are more perfect than the quality of our image compositions and the stories we want to tell with photos. At least that's the way it is with me. I am very happy with the Leica equipment. It doesn't bother me if 300 MP is possible or 900 MP. I don't need folding mirrors and I'm not horrified when they're offered.

The Leica S doesn't stop me from winning the Pulitzer Prize. Not even if there are more specialised cameras for specialised tasks. We simply have a diminishing marginal utility at some point.
 

[Jon Warwick]

30 minutes ago, basse said:

We simply have a diminishing marginal utility at some point.
 

yes, it's a valid point for many people, and if (for example) I didn't print very large, I'd be happy with anything.  If I was screen-based only, I'd personally just use an iphone. But for me, I do target large prints, and whilst the new technology is amazing and seems to never end in its progress, it's equally the case for (say) 60" wide prints that it's only now with a 100mp sensor medium format sensor that I feel that resolution from digital has actually caught up with my drum-scanned 5x4s. Of course, digital has always had other benefits beyond resolution (ie, higher acuity, better shadow noise), but large format film cameras and drum scans can capture a ton of fine detail, and it's taken a long time for digital to actually match it fully for very large prints in a single capture IMHO ......so in short, the advances in digital resolution were required to fully equal what large format film can achieve in terms of fine detail when well executed.

[Photon42]

6 hours ago, frame-it said:

i thought Hasselblad is owned by DJI? they would probably never sell to Leica.

Think out of the box.

[frame-it]

4 minutes ago, Photon42 said:

Think out of the box.

that's what the Chinese did 😇..they bought many iconic European companies from cameras to bikes..why would they sell them back?

[frame-it]

some nice shots in the pool >

 

https://www.flickr.com/groups/fujifilm-gfx100s/pool/page1

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[ZHNL]

3 hours ago, tom0511 said:

The best body if you want to use S lens on other body than S is the SL2. But what do you gain? Using the S lenses with contrast AF is louder and slower than using them on an S-body with phase AF. Are there really people who want to use the S lenses on a non S body (with all sacrifices)? If I was switching to a Fuji body I would probably also want to use Fuji lenses, because I assume they are the ones which work best together with the body. 

I would love to use S glass on Fuji but I have no interest AF capability as long as it give aperture control.

Using S on SL is a fine experience but at world of diminish return means that little larger format magic is lost. I don’t feel AF feel much different between S and SL actually, both slow but SL give ability to focus anywhere and much more reliable results I can trust but I can’t say the same with S. 
 

I have to say, S give immaculate render on SL camera on corner area which most M and L native glass struggle if you are picky about corner stress in rendering.  I am. 

Edited March 15, 2021 by ZHNL

[ZHNL]

2 hours ago, basse said:

Suppose we were a few years further on and the standard resolution was - let's say - 10 GP, a hundred times more than today. In addition, there would be a super-IBIS and it would be possible to photograph the darkness without noise. What would be then?
Would we be happy and only take photographs?

Or would we still be distracted by taking pictures? Maybe someone would get the crazy idea to take pictures in interesting daylight. Or just set the aperture, shutter speed, distance and ISO. Nothing more. The rest belongs to the good eye and the idea of telling a story with a photograph.
We already live in the future and all cameras are more perfect than the quality of our image compositions and the stories we want to tell with photos. At least that's the way it is with me. I am very happy with the Leica equipment. It doesn't bother me if 300 MP is possible or 900 MP. I don't need folding mirrors and I'm not horrified when they're offered.

The Leica S doesn't stop me from winning the Pulitzer Prize. Not even if there are more specialised cameras for specialised tasks. We simply have a diminishing marginal utility at some point.
 

No argument from me as I am perfectly happy with my 006 and 007. But this can’t be used as excuse for manufacture to stop progress, it is a dangerous thought could lead fetal fail IMHO .