Jump to content

Any S to Fuji GFX100s Comparisons?


John Smith

Recommended Posts

Did you keep S lenses for the SL?  I'm in a similar boat... but I still have the lenses and am awaiting the arrival of my new SL2-S.

It's hard to rationalize selling the 70 and 100 for SL somewhat-equivalents.

Link to post
Share on other sites

29 minutes ago, dritz said:

Did you keep S lenses for the SL?  I'm in a similar boat... but I still have the lenses and am awaiting the arrival of my new SL2-S.

It's hard to rationalize selling the 70 and 100 for SL somewhat-equivalents.

No, I traded the S lenses in for a 75mm Noctiilux. Really happy I did. Best lens ever.

Edited by John Smith
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, John Smith said:

I sold off my S system and now am firmly in the SL2/M camp. But I am still curious about how the S007 or S3 stacks up against the GFX100s in terms of image quality. I might decide to get back into the S sometime. 

I preferred the S(007) to the GFX100 for everything except AF and cropping. The best pictures with the GFX100 would have been as good or better with the 007. I now have an S3 and am completely happy. I miss the GF250/4, and the 100-200 zoom, but prefer S lenses in every other category.

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, mgrayson3 said:

I preferred the S(007) to the GFX100 for everything except AF and cropping. The best pictures with the GFX100 would have been as good or better with the 007. I now have an S3 and am completely happy. I miss the GF250/4, and the 100-200 zoom, but prefer S lenses in every other category.

Why do you prefer the S lenses? Just curious because everyone you hear seems to gush over Fuji’s lenses.

Link to post
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, John Smith said:

Why do you prefer the S lenses? Just curious because everyone you hear seems to gush over Fuji’s lenses.

My main lens, the S24 is *slightly* less sharp than the GF23 wide open in the corners. BUT the GF23 has a ton of flare and the S lens almost none. The Fuji lenses are perfectly sharp. That's just not the limiting factor in the pipeline. The S lenses, other than the 100, have similar character and color. The 100 is its own animal, and I usually prefer the sharper 120. The only S lens I'm not in love with is the 45. It's supposed to be great, but it leaves me cold. I don't have the 30, as that's a focal length I never use. But the 24, 35, 70, 120, and 180 (with elpro) - just lovely.

  • Like 4
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Just don't compare, as it's a different thing. S is more about the experience of an SLR, prism to lens viewfinder, slow methodical process, solid feeling well build. and gFX is a mirrorless camera with accompany convenience and accuracy, versatility and it has modern convenience such as IBIS, pixel shift and ease of maintenance with no mirror box etc. 

In terms of lens, I will say, it depends on what you like and what you want. both has its merits and cons. But, GFX is a camera system with a future that will guarantee it to have some new lens development in the pipeline, the current lens offering is pretty good, 110 f/2, 80/1.7 250/4... and their zoom lens is probably the best among competition. where as Leica S is a line that is half dead (or almost dead), plagued with reliability issue mid life and with no ability to really adapt any new lens... (adapting to Hasselblad lens which is almost dead itself). However, S has a very very unique experience and it's irreplaceable. For me, it's a nostalgic to pick up an S to shoot in a slow shooting experience, but for an easy all rounder, I will still pick GFX, particularly the Sensor tech is really that much better than the S...

  • Like 6
Link to post
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, xiaubauu2009 said:

the current lens offering is pretty good, 110 f/2, 80/1.7 250/4

It's a different type of lineup, compared to the S. They have fast, slow, big, small. The lenses that I tried were soft wide-open, but I didn't try them all (and not the 23 mentioned above). The S lineup is more consistent: almost all lenses are 2.5 or 2.8, diameters and filter sizes are almost all the same. Flare, colour, contrast, and acuity are completely consistent across the line.

I think it's philosophy: Leica built a cine-like lens lineup where all lenses are similar, other than focal length. It really is a cine lineup: Leica Thalia.

Fuji is niche-focused, offering lenses for specific functions: a pancake, an ultrawide, a fast standard, a "portrait lens," a long zoom, etc. It reminds me of photo-mag articles: "why you need an ultrawide," "twelve 70-210 zooms compared," "the joy of pancakes."

To me, the Fuji lineup doesn't come together as a team, so to speak. Each lens has its own character, which is a problem in post and in editing. In other words: your wide shot might not match your closeup, which can be very inconvenient. Those who shoot for single prints, rather than groups of prints, won't have an issue.

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

Further to this, Leica is doing the same thing with the SL Summicrons. They have different focal lengths, but they all handle and shoot the same way. That takes away a lot of worry when you use more than one lens on a project: they all edit together very well, so you won't have any issues putting a shot from one lens next to another shot from another lens.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

I think you need have niche requirement to appreciate Leica S offer. (OVF, CCD color for 006, rendering, build) 

Fuji is more into generic process that offer decent hardware level quality and great sharpness cross the line with good quality zoom to attract broader user base. If you like Leica build then you won't be so exciting about Fuji's offer. Their quality/price ratio makes a lot more sense though. No surprise here. 

IQ wise,(on paper) it we are honest, the 16 bit 100M fuji win hand down though I would prefer pick up Leica S every single time if the shooting condition permits, but I am a niche user. I don't have S3, but GFX50S offer slightly better DR at base ISO compare to 007 and the difference get more pronounced past ISO1600. My favorite S (006) has no chance here but it doesn't change the fact I like 006 the most. So, not everything can be compared on paper. 

The real answer for S is future MILC S if it happen at all. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

When I had the GFX50 I thought the Fuji lenses were very sharp and superb for landscapes but I found them (especially the 120 Makro) a bit clinical / harsh for portraits and, as others have commented, a bit less consistent across the range in terms of rendering and performance (the 32-64 zoom was great, though). For skin, results from the any S lens look more pleasant to me. On the other hand, I find the 4:3 aspect ratio of the Fuji sensor better for what I shoot and end up cropping more with the S, which is of course not so great for "image quality". But I have not felt limited by this much, with 64MP. The GFX has some dust reduction mechanism, resulting in clean pictures every time, whereas the S sensor always seems to include a dust spot or another blob in the image - can of course be cleaned in pp, but I'd say it also counts under "image quality". If I were starting this anew, I might go for the Fuji. But I have the S lenses and I am happy to shoot with the S3, especially now that it is fully supported in Capture One. In any case, I don't know what I would have to shoot to be limited by "image quality" from any camera at this price level nowadays. The other differences are much greater - OVF vs. EVF, AF speed and accuracy, single point vs. multi point AF, weather sealing, battery life, ergonomics etc.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, BernardC said:

It's a different type of lineup, compared to the S. They have fast, slow, big, small. The lenses that I tried were soft wide-open, but I didn't try them all (and not the 23 mentioned above). The S lineup is more consistent: almost all lenses are 2.5 or 2.8, diameters and filter sizes are almost all the same. Flare, colour, contrast, and acuity are completely consistent across the line.

I think it's philosophy: Leica built a cine-like lens lineup where all lenses are similar, other than focal length. It really is a cine lineup: Leica Thalia.

Fuji is niche-focused, offering lenses for specific functions: a pancake, an ultrawide, a fast standard, a "portrait lens," a long zoom, etc. It reminds me of photo-mag articles: "why you need an ultrawide," "twelve 70-210 zooms compared," "the joy of pancakes."

To me, the Fuji lineup doesn't come together as a team, so to speak. Each lens has its own character, which is a problem in post and in editing. In other words: your wide shot might not match your closeup, which can be very inconvenient. Those who shoot for single prints, rather than groups of prints, won't have an issue.

Agree. They use their APS camera philosophy in the lens deveolopment and has some weird zoom range or focal length. I love their zoom. 32-64 100-200 will be my 2 lens travel lens that does 99% of what I do. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, xiaubauu2009 said:

Agree. They use their APS camera philosophy in the lens deveolopment and has some weird zoom range or focal length. I love their zoom. 32-64 100-200 will be my 2 lens travel lens that does 99% of what I do. 

They are competing with FF section for the size and price. I think they succeed especially with the new 100S. Even people bring 100s up a lot here but I really don't think it is a Leica competitor. X1DII? yes.   

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, ZHNL said:

They are competing with FF section for the size and price. I think they succeed especially with the new 100S. Even people bring 100s up a lot here but I really don't think it is a Leica competitor. X1DII? yes.   

They are competing with FF cause they basically blow the 44x33 market out of the water... no competition there anymore. It is not competitor for S, but rather eliminator.... The sensor size is in the same ballpark. It is consider a MF, and therefore a competitor. With 1/3 the price... it's going to stop at least people to ever look at the S or even attract some S users to abandon ship.... Some Chinese adaptor manufacturer just need to be creative enough to crack the S lens code to move Leica S user over to Fuji completely.... X1DII is not a competitor anymore, yes it feels good in the hand and look nice... but it just not well done... Don't get me wrong, I don't use the GFX100 that much anymore nowadays, in stead of just keep shooting film... hahahaha, cause I find it boring... I used it to rescan my film.... 100mp negative scan is fun at 1sec a pop....

Edited by xiaubauu2009
  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, xiaubauu2009 said:

They are competing with FF cause they basically blow the 44x33 market out of the water... no competition there anymore. It is not competitor for S, but rather eliminator.... The sensor size is in the same ballpark. It is consider a MF, and therefore a competitor. With 1/3 the price... it's going to stop at least people to ever look at the S or even attract some S users to abandon ship.... Some Chinese adaptor manufacturer just need to be creative enough to crack the S lens code to move Leica S user over to Fuji completely.... X1DII is not a competitor anymore, yes it feels good in the hand and look nice... but it just not well done... Don't get me wrong, I don't use the GFX100 that much anymore nowadays, in stead of just keep shooting film... hahahaha, cause I find it boring... I used it to rescan my film.... 100mp negative scan is fun at 1sec a pop....

Yes, we need a smart adapter :) I don't think GFX is eliminator only because it competes in different price domain. It really meant to take high end high IQ FF market than Leica or Hasselblad.  Leica don't need sell remotely as much as Fuji to success. Wait till we see a MILC S. 

S in this situation is all Leica's own fault TBH. They can't do poorer job than this. S is only competing themselves. It is not good to recycle electronics from 007 to S3. there is basically zero hardware upgrade other than sensor after years delay. It is totally unacceptable no matter how to look at it. 

Sony (or Canon, nikon for that matter) is not an eliminator, Leica SL line is fine. S should have even better chance than SL line IMHO.    

Edited by ZHNL
  • Like 2
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, ZHNL said:

Yes, we need a smart adapter :) I don't think GFX is eliminator only because it competes in different price domain. It really meant to take high end high IQ FF market than Leica or Hasselblad.  Leica don't need sell remotely as much as Fuji to success. Wait till we see a MILC S. 

S in this situation is all Leica's own fault TBH. They can't do poorer job than this. S is only competing themselves. It is not good to recycle electronics from 007 to S3. there is basically zero hardware upgrade other than sensor after years delay. It is totally unacceptable no matter how to look at it. 

I think that Leica has been very clear in explaining who the S system is for: succesfull professionals who work on  location, mostly in fashion, portrait, and lifestyle. This explains the CS lenses, weatherproof design, high battery capacity, etc. They sell a few to amateurs like us, but that's not the business case, it just a nice little extra for them.

It's a small market, which explains the high prices.

From this point of view, the optical viewfinder is a key selling feature. EVFs are great for landscape and "hi-res" photography, but they are a hindrance for portraiture. The simple, consistent interface and electronics are also a plus. Professionals don't want the latest features. They want everything to work the same way every time, across multiple generations of bodies. To you, the lack of visible upgrades is unacceptable. To a targeted professional, it's a selling point.

I'm not saying that Leica won't release an EVF medium format system. If they do, it will be a completely new system, with a new business case. That market is already crowded, and very price-sensitive, so the risk would be very high.

I'm not surprised that Fuji users want to use Leica S lenses. They are amazing lenses, even if they have similar focal lengths to Fuji's own lenses. Fuji users probably feel the same way about PhaseOne and Hasselblad SLR lenses. Who wouldn't want to put the very best glass on their camera?

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, BernardC said:

I think that Leica has been very clear in explaining who the S system is for: succesfull professionals who work on  location, mostly in fashion, portrait, and lifestyle. This explains the CS lenses, weatherproof design, high battery capacity, etc. They sell a few to amateurs like us, but that's not the business case, it just a nice little extra for them.

It's a small market, which explains the high prices.

From this point of view, the optical viewfinder is a key selling feature. EVFs are great for landscape and "hi-res" photography, but they are a hindrance for portraiture. The simple, consistent interface and electronics are also a plus. Professionals don't want the latest features. They want everything to work the same way every time, across multiple generations of bodies. To you, the lack of visible upgrades is unacceptable. To a targeted professional, it's a selling point.

I'm not saying that Leica won't release an EVF medium format system. If they do, it will be a completely new system, with a new business case. That market is already crowded, and very price-sensitive, so the risk would be very high.

I'm not surprised that Fuji users want to use Leica S lenses. They are amazing lenses, even if they have similar focal lengths to Fuji's own lenses. Fuji users probably feel the same way about PhaseOne and Hasselblad SLR lenses. Who wouldn't want to put the very best glass on their camera?

Regarding S user base, I would say other way around. It is too expensive and unreliable for pros but obviously it is personal opinion unless Leica break out number.  Do you see much S3 images from pro yet? I feel you maybe overestimate S's success. Do pro want 921K LCD than 3M OLED display? Do they want electronics/processor from 4 years ago in this fast moving digital age? I can't rationally think those are selling points.  

I would have agree with you a few years back compare OVF and EVF usability but latest EVF improved a lot. I am a OVF hardcore fans but can appreciate benefit EVF brings. Leica don't need redesign S lens lineup, they only need bring a adapter and one or two small glasses initially to have it going. Market is crowded for sure, but it is a Leica Medium format. This market don't need fancy AF tech or other bell and whistle but IQ, Leica color and hardware build. Those are areas Leica shines.  

I think/hope it will happen.  

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, ZHNL said:

Do you see much S3 images from pro yet?

I don't know how I would find that out, unless it's a job that's sponsored by Leica.

Leica's S Magazine provides a good idea of their intended customers.

Most professionals are conservative by nature. A friend (who does national and international fashion campaigns) will not update firmware unless she absolutely has to. "Do not ever mess with something that works!" She sends her gear to be serviced once a year, and that's when firmware is updated. Cameras are amortized, and they are sold when their accounting value is null.

As I said earlier, it's a completely different market. Some people don't want new features every 6 months, along with a whole new user interface.

In a way, we are lucky because Leica caters to both kinds of photographers. They have the mirrorless SL line for people who want constant innovation, and the S line for people who want a tool for work. I'm not sure that there is much incentive to have a second mirrorless lineup with a bigger sensor than the SL, but you never know.

Link to post
Share on other sites

19 hours ago, ZHNL said:

Yes, we need a smart adapter :) I don't think GFX is eliminator only because it competes in different price domain. It really meant to take high end high IQ FF market than Leica or Hasselblad.  Leica don't need sell remotely as much as Fuji to success. Wait till we see a MILC S. 

S in this situation is all Leica's own fault TBH. They can't do poorer job than this. S is only competing themselves. It is not good to recycle electronics from 007 to S3. there is basically zero hardware upgrade other than sensor after years delay. It is totally unacceptable no matter how to look at it. 

Sony (or Canon, nikon for that matter) is not an eliminator, Leica SL line is fine. S should have even better chance than SL line IMHO.    

I think Fuji already close the door for S to ever go mirrorless. Why go into competition with large volume brand and also possibly unable to have better IQ with them. Rather stay in a zone of luxury, collector region and be unique so to speak. I do see Fuji as the a competitor to all camera that is consider MF, cause price is a competition in a similar format. And that’s why Fuji is so competitive, no? Anyway. Just hope there are some smart adaptor available for S to GFX. IBIS 16bi 100mp files with CS on the lens really shiver my timber. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Fuji is a big, diverse company (not only photo products) that skipped full frame and instead has decided to dominate "medium format". And dominate it they will, through a wide-ranging product line of decently built cameras (not as nice as Leica's or Hasselblad's, but decent nonetheless) and insanely low pricing (where Leica and Hasselblad cannot afford to compete). They will win.

Leica will probably bow out at some point. As will Hasselblad - as great as those Hasselblad lenses are, and as great as the camera bodies "could" be, I doubt very much that the parent company is willing to invest that much money against FujiFilm. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...