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Any S to Fuji GFX100s Comparisons?


John Smith

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44 minutes ago, xiaubauu2009 said:

I think Fuji already close the door for S to ever go mirrorless. Why go into competition with large volume brand and also possibly unable to have better IQ with them. Rather stay in a zone of luxury, collector region and be unique so to speak. I do see Fuji as the a competitor to all camera that is consider MF, cause price is a competition in a similar format. And that’s why Fuji is so competitive, no? Anyway. Just hope there are some smart adaptor available for S to GFX. IBIS 16bi 100mp files with CS on the lens really shiver my timber. 

if they do kill off the S line, they should provide a workaround [adapter/mount change etc] to use the S lenses on GFX/X1d etc etc

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I don’t know. Use the same logic, why SL?  buy Panasonic, or Sony. This is a niche market. S is even more so. 


I will pay S3 price for a mirrorless version with Leica hardware. 

they can just use off shelf 4433 100M Sony for their sensor given it is a mirrorless. No need inventing anything here. The S lens all cover fine. But please do include good hardware such as processor, EVF, LCD and IBIS with always good Leica build. 
 

hasselblad X1d3 will be fine actually if they can include focal plane shutter and IBIS. I am willing pay more than GFX if there is one. I think many will do the same. 
 

GFX is a good product just isn’t that scary TBH. 

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I have owned Leica S for long time. I had times when I was frustrated about AF inaccurancies, later I realized it has to do with certain lenses, then i thought I need smaller cameras (like SL and x1d system)...   what I want to say, even today, every time, if I take the S out of the shelve, I feel like "damn, I forgot how cool it is to look through an OVF", and while the AF is tricky the camera overall feels not slow for me at all. The body and lenses handle very balanced and feel solid,

and the lenses just render beautiful (great midtones, sharp but also smooth). Plus with CS lenses you have both options, leaf shutter or use the camera shutter.

I understand that EVF have taken the lead, but I also still believe that sometimes people forget that this does not come only with advantages. In good light shooting through a good OV I still feel much more connected to the subject. There is also probably a reason why many pros still use canon 1dxiii or nikon d5 cameras.  I am afraid I do not see a long term future of the S system, because I assume to few numbers sold to make it pay off for Leica. I also guess SLR are more expensive to build than EVF cameras. On the other side, I own all those great lenses, have a S007 and I assume Leica to service all this in the future as well. And maybe I can grab a used S3 at a good price one day. 

IMO the S-system is underrated very often. Of course the 1-point AF is not as advanced as Fuji, and it has lower resolution. (Even though for my private use 36MP are working quite well). I admit I wouldnt pay the money for a new S system today. On the other side my first 3 lenses I bought - if I remember right - about 13 years ago, and there are still top notch. OK, I had some motors to be replaced, but thats it. 

By the way, I believe S lenses or optimized for phase AF. I would asume when Leica brings a mirrorless MF camera one day, they will probably also bring new lenses. I find its much more fun to use S lenses on the S than with contrast AF on the SL2. 

 

 

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5 hours ago, xiaubauu2009 said:

Let’s just hope these Chinese adaptor company can crack the code.

That's a funny thing about Fuji's system. On the one hand, owners are always telling us that the lenses are amazing. One the other hand, owners desperately want better lenses to put on their cameras. It seems contradictory, but perhaps someone can explain. It's especially weird with S lenses: focal lengths overlap Fuji's lenses, and the S lenses are more expensive. In a normal world, you would want to use the native lens 100% of the time, but there's something strange going on in the Fuji world. Perhaps people are starting to realize that it's very hard to get 100MP of information on a sensor, even with IBIS and every AF mode. The answer is the same as it's ever been: tripod, manual focus, shoot at dawn on a clear day (no heat haze), optimal apertures, camera movements, etc. That will get you a sharp picture, but not necessarily a compelling one.

You almost never hear that about the X1D, even though you can adapt lenses onto that platform. People seem happy with the lenses that Hasselblad provides.

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Just now, BernardC said:

That's a funny thing about Fuji's system. On the one hand, owners are always telling us that the lenses are amazing. One the other hand, owners desperately want better lenses to put on their cameras. It seems contradictory, but perhaps someone can explain. It's especially weird with S lenses: focal lengths overlap Fuji's lenses, and the S lenses are more expensive. In a normal world, you would want to use the native lens 100% of the time, but there's something strange going on in the Fuji world. Perhaps people are starting to realize that it's very hard to get 100MP of information on a sensor, even with IBIS and every AF mode. The answer is the same as it's ever been: tripod, manual focus, shoot at dawn on a clear day (no heat haze), optimal apertures, camera movements, etc. That will get you a sharp picture, but not necessarily a compelling one.

You almost never hear that about the X1D, even though you can adapt lenses onto that platform. People seem happy with the lenses that Hasselblad provides.

i think the point was that IF the S line is killed off, at least the lenses could be used on other systems as well as the SL...you're always so quick to jump on Fuji users B)

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22 minutes ago, frame-it said:

you're always so quick to jump on Fuji users

Am I? I admit that I don't much care for the cameras: buttons everywhere. Many of the images are great, including your Tokyo images.

Mostly I find the online discussions fascinating. Hasselblad X1D users seem totally content. Their complaints are minor, and they talk about images and technique. Leica S users love their cameras, but many worry about whether there will be a next model, or one after that. Fuji users have their own quirks, as noted previously. Are they very experimental and inquisitive, or are they unsatisfied? I don't know. I only see a tiny minority who venture out into (non-Fuji) online forums, so maybe it's not even a thing.

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We often have those threads when new cameras appear on the market. Interesting we often read like "will you switch system because of a new body", but we dont often read "will you switch because of a certain lens".

I think the evolutionary releases of new bodies are sometimes sold as revolutionary changes. But often they are not really.

I cant believe people move away from the S system (if they have used and liked it for many years) just because of a new Fuji body. It is about the whole system.

Probably we are anyways a smal Fotosaurier-group of S-users.

 

 

 

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8 hours ago, BernardC said:

Am I? I admit that I don't much care for the cameras: buttons everywhere. Many of the images are great, including your Tokyo images.

Mostly I find the online discussions fascinating. Hasselblad X1D users seem totally content. Their complaints are minor, and they talk about images and technique. Leica S users love their cameras, but many worry about whether there will be a next model, or one after that. Fuji users have their own quirks, as noted previously. Are they very experimental and inquisitive, or are they unsatisfied? I don't know. I only see a tiny minority who venture out into (non-Fuji) online forums, so maybe it's not even a thing.

well, anyways, it would be nice if the S lenses could be used on other non-leica bodies as well 😇

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9 hours ago, BernardC said:

That's a funny thing about Fuji's system. On the one hand, owners are always telling us that the lenses are amazing. One the other hand, owners desperately want better lenses to put on their cameras. It seems contradictory, but perhaps someone can explain. It's especially weird with S lenses: focal lengths overlap Fuji's lenses, and the S lenses are more expensive. In a normal world, you would want to use the native lens 100% of the time, but there's something strange going on in the Fuji world. Perhaps people are starting to realize that it's very hard to get 100MP of information on a sensor, even with IBIS and every AF mode. The answer is the same as it's ever been: tripod, manual focus, shoot at dawn on a clear day (no heat haze), optimal apertures, camera movements, etc. That will get you a sharp picture, but not necessarily a compelling one.

You almost never hear that about the X1D, even though you can adapt lenses onto that platform. People seem happy with the lenses that Hasselblad provides.

I don't see many desperately want better lenses for their FUJI camera. I think there must be some given much much bigger user base, especially this is an awesome platform to adapt.  

TBH,  I guess the only reason people want adapt S glass on FUJI system because: 1. they are huge bargain  in leica term right now due to sad situations here. S glasses are cheaper than M or L glasses which is absurd. They are sold used almost at FUJI new level. 2. S glasses have real focus ring, a huge plus IMO. 3. there is no S mirrorless. 4. FUJI 100S is 'cheap' as a digital back but with huge performance with IBIS. 

Hasselbald has no focal plane shutter, you can't really use other glasses anyway.  Fuji lenses are fine. 110, 45, 23, 250 and zoom are as good as Leica in technical term. You can check Jim Kason't blog those lenses are as sharp as OTUS. They have no problem solve 100M sensor. (why you said that?) That is why i keep saying Leica S require niche taste and market to appreciate. As long as this market exist, they will sell no matter how others doing.  

I absolutely love my S glasses, and hate all those focus by wire glasses. FUJI, Hasselblad all sucks in that regard. Some of latest Sigma i series for SL are good but not as good as S. 

Edited by ZHNL
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12 hours ago, BernardC said:

That's a funny thing about Fuji's system. On the one hand, owners are always telling us that the lenses are amazing. One the other hand, owners desperately want better lenses to put on their cameras. It seems contradictory, but perhaps someone can explain. It's especially weird with S lenses: focal lengths overlap Fuji's lenses, and the S lenses are more expensive. In a normal world, you would want to use the native lens 100% of the time, but there's something strange going on in the Fuji world. Perhaps people are starting to realize that it's very hard to get 100MP of information on a sensor, even with IBIS and every AF mode. The answer is the same as it's ever been: tripod, manual focus, shoot at dawn on a clear day (no heat haze), optimal apertures, camera movements, etc. That will get you a sharp picture, but not necessarily a compelling one.

You almost never hear that about the X1D, even though you can adapt lenses onto that platform. People seem happy with the lenses that Hasselblad provides.

It’s not because it’s the issue with the lens but rather trying to get a unique feel. Like F1.4 lens on a MF. I rather use GF lens on most cases as it is the least compromise with best performance, but I do like some fun experience sometimes. I thibk you mistaken something trivial and fun as the deficiency of the system. 

in regards to the X1D not hearing anything about it is because it has no shutter and the Electronic shutter jello effect basically ruin the shots. So, it is because of its rubbish ness that you don’t hear about it. 

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2 hours ago, xiaubauu2009 said:

It’s not because it’s the issue with the lens but rather trying to get a unique feel. Like F1.4 lens on a MF. I rather use GF lens on most cases as it is the least compromise with best performance, but I do like some fun experience sometimes. I thibk you mistaken something trivial and fun as the deficiency of the system. 

in regards to the X1D not hearing anything about it is because it has no shutter and the Electronic shutter jello effect basically ruin the shots. So, it is because of its rubbish ness that you don’t hear about it. 

Sorry I should said hasselblad is not that good adapting other lens cause of the no shutter design. It’s a great camera if you only use its own stuff. 

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4 hours ago, xiaubauu2009 said:

I rather use GF lens on most cases as it is the least compromise with best performance, but I do like some fun experience sometimes.

If I theoretically ever put another non-Fuji lens onto my GFX100S, it’d also be for a fun experience, and not at all because I find my Fuji lens deficient in any way when it comes to performance (in my case I started with the GF63mm). I have taken shots with the GFX100S & GF63mm, and compared them to my SL2 & SL50mm APO. As an example, at the edges of one image taken at mid-aperture (the image is a line of houses straight across a wide river, around 400 metres away), the Fuji lens is keeping the edges of the image AT LEAST as consistently sharp as the SL APO did. So I find its technical performance to be outstanding (it doesn’t feel at all like it’s not keeping up with 100mp, and the consistency of its edge-to-edge sharpness is really impressive),  but it also does this to my eyes with fairly gentle contrast and acuity, a rendering that matches my preference well.

Edited by Jon Warwick
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1 hour ago, Jon Warwick said:

If I theoretically ever put another non-Fuji lens onto my GFX100S, it’d also be for a fun experience, and not at all because I find my Fuji lens deficient in any way when it comes to performance (in my case I started with the GF63mm). I have taken shots with the GFX100S & GF63mm, and compared them to my SL2 & SL50mm APO. As an example, at the edges of one image taken at mid-aperture (the image is a line of houses straight across a wide river, around 400 metres away), the Fuji lens is keeping the edges of the image AT LEAST as consistently sharp as the SL APO did. So I find its technical performance to be outstanding (it doesn’t feel at all like it’s not keeping up with 100mp, and the consistency of its edge-to-edge sharpness is really impressive),  but it also does this to my eyes with fairly gentle contrast and acuity, a rendering that matches my preference well.

I used to thibk the 50s pixel is just too unnaturally sharp cause of the small pixel well. But now it does feel abit more normal with the 100. 

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10 hours ago, Jon Warwick said:

If I theoretically ever put another non-Fuji lens onto my GFX100S, it’d also be for a fun experience, and not at all because I find my Fuji lens deficient in any way when it comes to performance (in my case I started with the GF63mm). I have taken shots with the GFX100S & GF63mm, and compared them to my SL2 & SL50mm APO. As an example, at the edges of one image taken at mid-aperture (the image is a line of houses straight across a wide river, around 400 metres away), the Fuji lens is keeping the edges of the image AT LEAST as consistently sharp as the SL APO did. So I find its technical performance to be outstanding (it doesn’t feel at all like it’s not keeping up with 100mp, and the consistency of its edge-to-edge sharpness is really impressive),  but it also does this to my eyes with fairly gentle contrast and acuity, a rendering that matches my preference well.

So it pretty much comes down to lens rendering, whether we’re talking S or GFX or even SL.

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3 hours ago, John Smith said:

So it pretty much comes down to lens rendering, whether we’re talking S or GFX or even SL.

hi, it's an interesting comment. I think it's a bit more than that for me. For example, personally, I found the rendering of an SL APO lens to look different when I used it on a Panasonic S1R compared to when I used it on my SL2 (I preferred the latter, it looked gentler in its draw). So it's not just the lens rendering in isolation, I think it's more to do with whether I like the overall rendering of a given lens-sensor combo. Then too, whether the files are malleable enough to also get to a look that I like ....lighter contrast being key for me if I'm after a more "cinematic" look, for example. Finally, printing via various methods changes the rendering too for me a lot ...I find prints done on a Lambda printer to look more digital (and less pleasing for my taste) than on an inkjet like the Epson 11880 that is used at the same lab that does my prints.  So there's a lot to it across the whole chain that can influence the rendering, and the lens is just one (admittedly important) component.

Edited by Jon Warwick
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2 hours ago, Jon Warwick said:

hi, it's an interesting comment. I think it's a bit more than that for me. For example, personally, I found the rendering of an SL APO lens to look different when I used it on a Panasonic S1R compared to when I used it on my SL2 (I preferred the latter, it looked gentler in its draw). So it's not just the lens rendering in isolation, I think it's more to do with whether I like the overall rendering of a given lens-sensor combo. Then too, whether the files are malleable enough to also get to a look that I like ....lighter contrast being key for me if I'm after a more "cinematic" look, for example. Finally, printing via various methods changes the rendering too for me a lot ...I find prints done on a Lambda printer to look more digital (and less pleasing for my taste) than on an inkjet like the Epson 11880 that is used at the same lab that does my prints.  So there's a lot to it across the whole chain that can influence the rendering, and the lens is just one (admittedly important) component.

The image processor is the big difference here in terms of S1R and SL2. Cause basically they are identical component cameras to some degree. 

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I think we as consumers tend to underestimate the influence of camera company's engineers to tune for the output that they want to achieve. The sensor and many of the electronics are the same, but that does not mean the camera will have similar results. I have seen how much even the color profiles can influence...the engineers are working the data at a deeper level than just that and tweaking the information off the sensor to suit their purposes. Everyone seems to have their strengths and weaknesses. For example, owning both the SL2 and S1, the SL2 seems to do multishot better, and is also sharper in general (per pixel...resolution aside), and part of this is surely the thinner cover glass. Meanwhile, the S1 manages to look better for video in most cases. I realize these are not the same sensors, but I think they give an interesting comparison, and seem to indicate that the cameras are more than the sum of their parts. This is true even for Leica. The S006 is basically a doubled M9 sensor, but the S006 gets a lot more out of that sensor than the M9 did...Leica learned and improved.

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On 3/11/2021 at 9:07 PM, xiaubauu2009 said:

They are competing with FF cause they basically blow the 44x33 market out of the water... no competition there anymore. It is not competitor for S, but rather eliminator.... The sensor size is in the same ballpark. It is consider a MF, and therefore a competitor. With 1/3 the price... it's going to stop at least people to ever look at the S or even attract some S users to abandon ship.... Some Chinese adaptor manufacturer just need to be creative enough to crack the S lens code to move Leica S user over to Fuji completely.... X1DII is not a competitor anymore, yes it feels good in the hand and look nice... but it just not well done... Don't get me wrong, I don't use the GFX100 that much anymore nowadays, in stead of just keep shooting film... hahahaha, cause I find it boring... I used it to rescan my film.... 100mp negative scan is fun at 1sec a pop....

I use the GFX-R as my scanner, since I, too, shoot mainly film.

And there is a very clever adaptor allowing the use my Mamiya 7 lenses, despite those lenses having their own leaf shutters.

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