Is the M10-R a Success?

[jplomley]

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...or did Leica get it wrong? I'm not hearing a lot of fanfare on this 40 MP variant, and certainly not many users on this forum waxing lyrical. Even the number of posted images from the camera is rather dismal. My local dealer informs the M10M is easily outselling the M10-R. Not to mention the M10-R introduction by Leica was very low key, as if they did not want anyone to notice :-) 

So, did they miss the mark completely? And what does this mean for the M11? Curious to hear the forum feedback! 

 

 

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[robsonj]

It’s probably the best camera I’ve ever owned. Also currently have a A7rIV, Fuji x100v, Ricoh GRIII, M2, Fuji gw690iii.

But shooting opportunities have been limited due to Covid. I can’t think of anything that it’s missing for me, has everything I want including resolution and DR and nothing I don’t want.

[jakontil]

1 minute ago, Al Brown said:

It's probably because 24 megapixels is all most people need. Yet I can't wait to get one...

This is exactly what i had in my case, when Q2 was released, i swoop my Q for it and regretted it soon after

so when the R was announced i knew where i was heading hahaha

[Raid Amin]

I was unsure which to get; the M10 or the M10-R.  After some thinking, I decided that the M10 was sufficient for my needs.

[Dennis]

I'm super happy with my M10. But If I switch fully to Leica M in the future, I would probably need an M10-P and an M10-R. 

24MP w/ a 35

40MP w/ 21 and 50

Until then, M10 is just perfect. But the silent shutter, using the camera professionally in different environments, the sound can really make the difference.

[darkinners]

I think M10-R just an placeholder for the real next generation.

While I generally love my M10-R but there are a lot of things could have been better, for example upgrade the RAM and Maestro 2 processor

The processor is so slow, after you take a picture with M10-R and hit play button, it will display the previous image instead of the current one, the processor is too slow, you have to wait a couple seconds after you take the picture in order to playback correctly. 

Also the wifi is too slow to be any good, 802.11N takes forever to send a 40MP raw to iPad/Phone, Also it's time to upgrade the UHS-1 to UHS-II SD slot.

 

Everything else though, I think Leica doesn't need to implement new automated features, (I personally don't see the point of the new perspective control) 

Most people shoot M because of the simplicity, Leica can put the complex and advance features on SL, whereas the bigger body can accommodate a bigger battery for the advance features to be useful.

[LocalHero1953]

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Speculative question..........

Did Leica issue the M10R as a relatively cheap-to-implement variant of an existing model, and the SL2-S, ditto, as a low cost way of testing the market to find out how many pixels people actually want? Will they prefer more pixels when given a simple A-B choice, or fewer? Testing the market through variants of existing versions could save an expensive mistake when they get round to launching the M11, CL2 or SL3.

Disclosure: I sold my SL2 to get the SL2-S. Did anyone sell the M10R to get the M10?

Edited February 10, 2021 by LocalHero1953

[Matlock]

10 hours ago, jplomley said:

...or did Leica get it wrong? I'm not hearing a lot of fanfare on this 40 MP variant, and certainly not many users on this forum waxing lyrical.

 

Probably because the satisfied users are busy taking pictures instead of commenting on this forum. This is a common aspect on forums (of all subjects) in that it is mainly those who have a negative view are the ones who comment. I am certainly very satisfied with my M10-R.

[crf59]

I have an M10-P and borrowed an M10-R for a day. The R has a better sensor - there is no doubt about that. I think the 40MP offers some additional flexibility for cropping and appears to have better dynamic range. It's not earth shattering by any stretch and 95% of shooters probably won't notice the difference in casual shooting. The price hike was only modest, so this was not a "revolutionary" upgrade for Leica. I think perhaps people get too caught up in the idea that the next camera of any line has to be a moon shot upgrade. Cameras are already better than they need to be. I would MUCH rather have my M10-P if it holds up reliably over 20 years than something new that lasts 5 - tells you where my head is. 

We never had all this hysteria over MPs and autofocus when film was in its heyday. It was all about the lenses and metering back then. I used to be as bad about GAS as anyone. Went through 6 DSLRs in 3 years and owned more than 2 dozen cameras over 10 years. Crazy. So my take (after all the rambling) is if I were to buy another M10 I would certainly buy the R. But having the P I would certainly not trade in just to get an R. There is nothing I can do realistically with the R I can't do with the P.

Personally, I would like to see Leica come up with viewfinder for the Ms that has some sort of focus indicator in addition to the RF patch that would help with longer lens focusing. I'd also like to see some effort put into getting back to the M3-size finder while allowing for adjustable magnification. THAT would be a significant upgrade. As long as I am dreaming, a higher-res Visoflex.

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, crf59 said:

"............Cameras are already better than they need to be............"

Excellent commentary..........

[jplomley]

3 hours ago, Matlock said:

I am certainly very satisfied with my M10-R.

As am I. Traded my M10 for the R as soon as one was available at my dealer. No regrets whatsoever. 

[Cobram]

21 minutes ago, crf59 said:

Cameras are already better than they need to be. I would MUCH rather have my M10-P if it holds up reliably over 20 years than something new that lasts 5 - tells you where my head is.

Mee too.🙂

[darkinners]

7 hours ago, Al Brown said:

Well on the M240, the processor is even slower - you only get a DNG filename and not even an image if you scroll too fast before all are buffered lol.

 

Yes and the M9 is even worse, still 40MP M camera could use the Maestro 3, UHS-II and 5G wifi AC upgrade, I understand the M camera size limits the battery capacity, though I am not too bother by the fact that I need to bring 2 more batteries for a full day shooting. 

[LBJ2]

I think the M10-R is an excellent addition to the M10 series hopefully keeping 24 and 40 MP model options going forward. I am sure most that purchased are happy with the M10-R. 

In the scheme of things, the M10-R is no great departure from the M10 or Rangefinder model so what's not to like unless 40 MPs is just too much for some. BUT as OP asks, has the M10-R been a sales success to date, even in a Covid economy? Other than the handful that will post "I love mine" how could we determine otherwise? Seems to be in stock at most of the popular USA on-line retailers. 

Edited February 10, 2021 by LBJ2

[jaapv]

6 minutes ago, LBJ2 said:

how could we determine otherwise? 

Ask Leica...  

[jdlaing]

Let’s see some of the wonderful pictures from all those cameras and lenses.

[mujk]

It seems that Leica is experimenting with the commercial viability of having parallel models with different resolution sensors. It has to be cheaper than developing completely new models with the same pace. Maybe they also wanted to ensure customer loyalty. But Leica may not tell if M10-R eventually was a commercial success or not. 

[Knipsknecht]

vor 31 Minuten schrieb Steven:

[...] but why not embrace progress? [...]

Well, I think people embrace progress if it’s making their lifes better or if it’s delivering “something” people think they need. If both doesn’t happen, “progress” becomes some kind of an artificial, business driven mechanism that keeps turning and turning without delivering any (substantial) surplus. In this sense “progress” turns into l’art pour l’art😉.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Matlock]

45 minutes ago, Steven said:

Not sure if that's true. I participated heavily on this forum to declare my love and appreciation for my SL2S, my M7, my M10D, my M10P, my 28 lux, my 35 pre asph, my 35 pre fle, .............
Maybe 5% of the posts I've left here were negative criticism about how much I hated my M10R. 

It wasn't aimed at you Steven but it is, largely, true.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Steven said:

Don't mean to be rude to any of you, but that's actually to me a very strange way to think. 

Yes, you can take great photos with way older cameras, but why not embrace progress? Why not always keep looking ahead and forward ? It's a bit "tarte à la crème" to say that we never need anything more, that everything is already great, that those who need more are not real photographers..... Someone can translate "tarte a la creme" please ? 

No I don't think you are being rude Steven, but of course we all have different opinions and many hold them perhaps to be more valid than the others. In truth anything goes in regards to what tools we choose to use each person comes at those choices in differing ways. What's right for you is probably not right for me and that really doesn't matter especially so in regards to our choice of cameras that we make to express ourselves in the images we make, or try to make anyway. But what does matter I think is that we listen to others with an open mind because ultimately that's how we learn ourselves without necessarily concurring with the other person's point of view.

There's nothing wrong with wanting to have the best gear one can afford to work with, the best tools will not make you a craftsman but sometimes they can make the journey more pleasurable. Back to the M10-R........Yes it's a noble effort by Leica, I salute it, and yes I too was extremely interested in buying one but unlike you I did find a loaner for a week or so and like you I found some aspects of the camera not agreeable for how I want to work with a M at this time, so I didn't buy one, I stuck with my other M10's and I'm pleased to have done so. I have said here on the forum that I've seen nothing in regards to the posted images that for me would make me regret not having swapped up to a R, but that isn't to say that those reasons do not exist for others. We are all different but what does and should matter more is that despite what gear we use we push to grow our creativity and expression rather than getting trapped in the mire of believing that the newest and the shiniest toy, ( or bag, or half case ), will suffice to get us there.

"tarte a la creme"......hmmm? Would you be mistaking that expression with "La creme de la creme" ?? That is more of a universal usage and is a way of expressing "the best of the best" as in........."La crème est la partie la plus grasse, la meilleure du lait qui "flotte" à la surface. Et comme, c'est bien connu, ce qui est haut est bien, la "crème de la crème" est donc le meilleur, quelque chose de qualité supérieure"..............

a'bientot

Edited February 10, 2021 by petermullett