GFX100S vs SL2/X1D

[Mr.Q]

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Yeah, speed/AF isn't much of an upgrade over even the original A9. If you aren't regularly using at least 2 of it's 3 main strengths (speed, resolution, video) then it probably makes little sense to upgrade. 

[Speeding]

5 minutes ago, Mr.Q said:

Yeah, speed/AF isn't much of an upgrade over even the original A9. If you aren't regularly using at least 2 of it's 3 main strengths (speed, resolution, video) then it probably makes little sense to upgrade. 

The resolution is probably the biggest benefit.  The speed (I assume you mean burst speed with AF) didn't actually change with the GM lenses I tested with.  They still topped out at 16fps on the 100-400 and 14fps on the 600/4 (same as the A9II).  The only time I actually got 28-30fps was on a stationary target.  Once things started moving the actual frame rate dropped considerably.  I found video too shaky to use without a gimbal (similar to A9II).  Besides, I have a host of L-mount cameras and PL lenses for video work with a tried and true workflow in place so video was never going to be an interest with Sony.  Really, it's the ergonomics and build that put me off.  Just doesn't work for me, especially with gloves.   

[Mr.Q]

That makes sense as we all have our preferences. Ergonomics is fine for me as I have medium sized hands and I never wear gloves when shooting. As for speed, I meant speed in general, including read/write, buffering, AF acquisition, 1/400 flash sync, etc etc.

I rely on AF for video so the L-mount cameras are a non-starter. Canon is great too but their codecs make the file sizes unacceptably huge. Sony files are much more manageable (even for 10bit 4k120p) especially when used with proxies. As for stabilization, I use a small gimbal for rare projects (all serious work needs a gimbal if we're being honest) but I'm surprised how effective Catalyst Browse is for most handheld stuff.

There are compromises of course, but the A1 has allowed me to consolidate all my MILC's into one body. I've tried them all, and at the end of the day they're all computers in a box, just with different shapes and flavors. Nothing comes remotely close to a rangefinder for pure enjoyment. 

[Succisa75]

6 hours ago, Speeding said:

The resolution is probably the biggest benefit.  The speed (I assume you mean burst speed with AF) didn't actually change with the GM lenses I tested with.  They still topped out at 16fps on the 100-400 and 14fps on the 600/4 (same as the A9II).  The only time I actually got 28-30fps was on a stationary target.  Once things started moving the actual frame rate dropped considerably.  I found video too shaky to use without a gimbal (similar to A9II).  Besides, I have a host of L-mount cameras and PL lenses for video work with a tried and true workflow in place so video was never going to be an interest with Sony.  Really, it's the ergonomics and build that put me off.  Just doesn't work for me, especially with gloves.   

You should be hitting 25-26FPS with GM lenses. Need to set AFC to release instead of focus.  This helps a lot in terms of speed. Also set burst mode to H+

[Succisa75]

45 minutes ago, Mr.Q said:

That makes sense as we all have our preferences. Ergonomics is fine for me as I have medium sized hands and I never wear gloves when shooting. As for speed, I meant speed in general, including read/write, buffering, AF acquisition, 1/400 flash sync, etc etc.

I rely on AF for video so the L-mount cameras are a non-starter. Canon is great too but their codecs make the file sizes unacceptably huge. Sony files are much more manageable (even for 10bit 4k120p) especially when used with proxies. As for stabilization, I use a small gimbal for rare projects (all serious work needs a gimbal if we're being honest) but I'm surprised how effective Catalyst Browse is for most handheld stuff.

There are compromises of course, but the A1 has allowed me to consolidate all my MILC's into one body. I've tried them all, and at the end of the day they're all computers in a box, just with different shapes and flavors. Nothing comes remotely close to a rangefinder for pure enjoyment. 

Agree. Right now it’s the best work camera for everything. Leica is for the enjoyment of photography, Sony is to capture anything you want to or need to for work etc. 

[FlashGordonPhotography]

16 hours ago, Succisa75 said:

Agree. Right now it’s the best work camera for everything. Leica is for the enjoyment of photography, Sony is to capture anything you want to or need to for work etc. 

I have used a dozen brands of camera for work and none of them, including Sony or Leica, has stopped me from capturing every shot I needed to. Maybe a sports shooter needs more but the current reliance on gear to get the shot over skill speaks more about the photographer than the camera.

Just shoot video and pull frames if that's what you feel you need. Not photography though.

Gordon

[Michael Markey]

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25 minutes ago, FlashGordonPhotography said:

I have used a dozen brands of camera for work and none of them, including Sony or Leica, has stopped me from capturing every shot I needed to. Maybe a sports shooter needs more but the current reliance on gear to get the shot over skill speaks more about the photographer than the camera.

Just shoot video and pull frames if that's what you feel you need. Not photography though.

Gordon

Can`t disagree but ....

Some of us are getting older and maybe want an easier time of it 

I used to capture the stuff I do now with film M`s and my timing is still pretty good however the new gear does help especially on those days when things aren`t falling into place .

You don`t get more keepers per se but the technology certainly helps at times  .

Edited June 30, 2021 by Michael Markey

[Speeding]

16 hours ago, Succisa75 said:

You should be hitting 25-26FPS with GM lenses. Need to set AFC to release instead of focus.  This helps a lot in terms of speed. Also set burst mode to H+

H+ with industrial electronic timer on motorized sled (accurate to 10ms).  With release priority I get ~20fps but 7 are OOF, so what's the point.  With focus priority I get 15fps, 12 of which are in focus.  The 30fps is marketing hype.  The only time the camera gets close is stationary target or when AF fails to move with the subject.

The A1 has higher hit rate when subject coming toward the camera than going away.  Tests above are coming toward.  Rack zooming still struggles.  In-focus rate drops to 50% with the 100-400GM.  The D5 seems to do much better with rack zooming.  

[Succisa75]

2 hours ago, FlashGordonPhotography said:

I have used a dozen brands of camera for work and none of them, including Sony or Leica, has stopped me from capturing every shot I needed to. Maybe a sports shooter needs more but the current reliance on gear to get the shot over skill speaks more about the photographer than the camera.

Just shoot video and pull frames if that's what you feel you need. Not photography though.

Gordon

A1 is designed mainly for sports and wildlife hence the performance. Yes one can capture most things with any camera, however the enhanced AF, tracking and speed of cameras like the A1, help photographers that live in a high speed get the picture out ASAP world, better opportunities and abilities to capture the image that keeps them employed.  

[Succisa75]

1 hour ago, Speeding said:

H+ with industrial electronic timer on motorized sled (accurate to 10ms).  With release priority I get ~20fps but 7 are OOF, so what's the point.  With focus priority I get 15fps, 12 of which are in focus.  The 30fps is marketing hype.  The only time the camera gets close is stationary target or when AF fails to move with the subject.

The A1 has higher hit rate when subject coming toward the camera than going away.  Tests above are coming toward.  Rack zooming still struggles.  In-focus rate drops to 50% with the 100-400GM.  The D5 seems to do much better with rack zooming.  

I have yet to achieve the 30fps but have achieved mid 20s. A good reference for settings is to watch tutorials by Mark Galer on YouTube. While he is a Sony ambassador he does break down the settings to achieve higher hit rates with fast FPS. 
 

additionally you need to use CF Express type A cards to get these speeds

Edited July 1, 2021 by Succisa75

[SrMi]

1 hour ago, Succisa75 said:

I have yet to achieve the 30fps but have achieved mid 20s. A good reference for settings is to watch tutorials by Mark Galer on YouTube. While he is a Sony ambassador he does break down the settings to achieve higher hit rates with fast FPS. 
 

additionally you need to use CF Express type A cards to get these speeds

Thom Hogan has written an informative A1 review. Excerpt:

"That 30 fps only happens if you’ve set JPEG, HEIF, or Compressed Raw. It also only works above 1/250 second shutter speeds and only certain lenses can keep up with autofocus. "

[Speeding]

2 hours ago, SrMi said:

Thom Hogan has written an informative A1 review. Excerpt:

"That 30 fps only happens if you’ve set JPEG, HEIF, or Compressed Raw. It also only works above 1/250 second shutter speeds and only certain lenses can keep up with autofocus. "

In the field, the A1 topped out at the same place the A9II does.  If it requires a dozen asterisks to create an environment where it might reach 30fps, what’s the practical utility?  Perhaps someone can post 30 frame sequence of moving target taken in 1 sec.  XT4, A9, G9, EM1 all top out around 12-16fps depending on lenses.  That’s by no means bad, but these marketing claims of 18, 20, 30 FPS are a bit much.  About as helpful as CIPA stabilization rating 🙂

[aksclix]

On 6/25/2021 at 5:39 PM, Alistairm said:

I own all three systems. 

Much could (and has) been said about them. I’d summarise it thus, noting that all make fantastic images. 

The X1D has the best menu system, arguably the best ergonomics (apart from smelly rubber and sub-par weather sealing) and second best outright image quality but is very slow and lacks stabilisation. It is also the system I worry about most long-term, (eg in terms of whether there will ever be a new body). 

The SL has a very good menu system, the best range of lenses and handles beautifully. In terms of a blend of haptics, feel in hand and technology, it is my favourite system. I also like the way the Leica lenses render, and the integration with M glass.  

The GFX100S has comfortably the best image quality, is much cheaper than the other systems, has a clunky menu system and doesn’t feel as nice in hand as the Blad or the Leica. 

I also own all three of these systems and I liked shooting with the SL2 more because of the gorgeous files... It was an outdoor maternity photoshoot and I ended up shooting way more with the SL2 and 24-90 and Pana 50mm f1.4 than my 100s with 80mm f1.7 and x1d with 90mm f3.2 

Despite the SL2 being pitted against MF, I really shot a hellova lot more with the SL2. Files barely needed any processing.. I'll have to leave the SL2 behind and force myself to shoot with the others I guess.. It could be the AWB/Daylight rendering on different systems.. need to check when I have a more relaxed shooting session..

 

Edited July 1, 2021 by aksclix

[Succisa75]

3 hours ago, Speeding said:

In the field, the A1 topped out at the same place the A9II does.  If it requires a dozen asterisks to create an environment where it might reach 30fps, what’s the practical utility?  Perhaps someone can post 30 frame sequence of moving target taken in 1 sec.  XT4, A9, G9, EM1 all top out around 12-16fps depending on lenses.  That’s by no means bad, but these marketing claims of 18, 20, 30 FPS are a bit much.  About as helpful as CIPA stabilization rating 🙂

Honestly I have no skin in the game on this but if you set up the camera properly with the CF Express A cards you can get mid 20’s relatively easily. Set AFC to Release instead of focus, don’t shoot with jpeg and Raw but one or the other, use a GM lens vs third party lenses and you can achieve mid 20s. I have shot birds, wildlife sports and for the five to 6 seconds without buffering kicking in you can get that boost you need. 

[Mr.Q]

15 hours ago, FlashGordonPhotography said:

Just shoot video and pull frames if that's what you feel you need. Not photography though.

Gordon

Digital photography with liveview is basically pulling frames out of a video. There's barely any distinction with the latest cameras.

 

 

 

[hdmesa]

On 4/6/2021 at 4:39 PM, SrMi said:

Jim Kasson has documented the issue in details. You do not see it until you test for it properly. What Jim's result mean to me is that I do refocus or recheck focus before shooting, even if nothing has changed from last shot.

Here is a thread on DPR: GFX FBW lens focus instability

I've never had this affect my GFX images in real world use. When I need the same focus point between multiple pictures, I use autofocus to lock focus then immediately switch to manual focus for the series (multi-shot panos with focus on infinity for example). It also could be that I don't see the issue because I take my series rather quickly, say under 15 seconds, and the "drift" doesn't have time to manifest. I also shoot these type of multi-image series at ~f/5.6, which could mask minor focus drift. Whatever the case, I doubt anyone would notice this issue unless their use case involves the kind of tests Jim Kasson, Lloyd Chambers, and others do.

[Speeding]

20 hours ago, Succisa75 said:

Honestly I have no skin in the game on this but if you set up the camera properly with the CF Express A cards you can get mid 20’s relatively easily. Set AFC to Release instead of focus, don’t shoot with jpeg and Raw but one or the other, use a GM lens vs third party lenses and you can achieve mid 20s. I have shot birds, wildlife sports and for the five to 6 seconds without buffering kicking in you can get that boost you need. 

Can you point me to one of these burst sequences where it accommodates focus 25 times in 1 second?  How did you time?  Stationary subject, sure, many cameras can do this.  But try moving subject.

Edited July 2, 2021 by Speeding

[Succisa75]

4 minutes ago, Speeding said:

Can you point me to one of these burst sequences where it accommodates focus 25 times in 1 second?  How did you time?  Stationary subject, sure, many cameras can do this.  But try moving subject.

Stop watch on phone and internal. As mentioned before check out Mark Galer’s video on the A1. He explains how to achieve these numbers. I used his recommendations and had similar findings. He goes deeper into AF settings etc. 

Due to the card speeds on the CF Express type A cards you have a five to 6 sec window before buffering kicks in.  It’s not bad like the SL2 but your fps will slow a bit. 
From my usage I only use H+ for the must have action shots. Otherwise I set H to 20fps and stay there as that’s more than enough for most things. 

[Speeding]

10 hours ago, Succisa75 said:

Stop watch on phone and internal. As mentioned before check out Mark Galer’s video on the A1. He explains how to achieve these numbers. I used his recommendations and had similar findings. He goes deeper into AF settings etc. 

Due to the card speeds on the CF Express type A cards you have a five to 6 sec window before buffering kicks in.  It’s not bad like the SL2 but your fps will slow a bit. 
From my usage I only use H+ for the must have action shots. Otherwise I set H to 20fps and stay there as that’s more than enough for most things. 

Mark doesn't bring anything to light that isn't already known.  I checked his video again.  I found no point using SD cards in the A1 - operationally it was much faster with CFA.  The only CFA cards I have are Sony CEAG160T, I doubt that's a bottleneck.  I was shooting in 2-3 sec bursts so buffer isn't an issue.

You say "stop watch on phone" was used to time.  How did you move it around in front of a lens like the 600GM?  Can you share your burst images with EXIF intact?

Edited July 2, 2021 by Speeding

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[Succisa75]

9 hours ago, Speeding said:

Mark doesn't bring anything to light that isn't already known.  I checked his video again.  I found no point using SD cards in the A1 - operationally it was much faster with CFA.  The only CFA cards I have are Sony CEAG160T, I doubt that's a bottleneck.  I was shooting in 2-3 sec bursts so buffer isn't an issue.

You say "stop watch on phone" was used to time.  How did you move it around in front of a lens like the 600GM?  Can you share your burst images with EXIF intact?

We timed it with two people. One using the camera one with a timer. I don’t have the images anymore as my test was done when before official launch. I don’t own the camera, but had access to it early. 
 

Clearly you don’t believe mid 20s can be achieved but there are numerous photographers and reviewers that have gotten speeds that replicate my findings. 

Perhaps try going to the A1 Facebook group and ask others who can share more info with you. 

All the best!