GFX100S vs SL2/X1D

[LocalHero1953]

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3 hours ago, Jon Warwick said:

Yes, I rather liked the very gentle click on the X1D ....reminds me of using my Mamiya 7 over many many years, which was also vibration free and was a revelation after the clunk of the Hasselblad 501!

Of course, with the GFX100S there's also the option of a vibration free electronic shutter too.  I haven't figured out what the difference is between the GFX's "electronic shutter" and "electronic front curtain shutter" - is there a difference? 

And on the matter of "electronic" vs "mechanical" shutters generally .....are there situations where using electronic shutters can cause issues, or is the electronic shutter something one can happily use (at normal shutter speeds) at all times and is generally preferable to mechanical shutter due to less vibration? 

There are two main problems with rolling electronic shutters i.e. those that don't read the whole of the sensor at the same time, but over a period of, say 1/30sec (even though individual pixels are read in, say, 1/8000sec).

• You can get colour problems in artificial light because a lot of light sources fluctuate in colour with the mains frequency
• You can get distorted moving objects (golf swings are often cited, but also car wheels) because the object is shot at different times during the read out  

Global shutters shouldn't have this problem.

Edited March 12, 2021 by LocalHero1953

[tom0511]

With the Leica S I try to use 1/250 or shorter to avoid shake, so for some subjects IBIS wouldnt hurt.

I also wouldnt mind IBIS in a M camera. I can live without, but this means that one often has to open the f-stop when shooting in dim light. Sometimes its fine, sometimes a little more DOF would be nice.

Also IBIS would help to keep ISO down in lower light.

However most usefull IS/IBIS is still for longer lenses/ tele applications. And this os not really the typical application, neither for Leica M nor for medium format cameras. I would not want to shoot a 90-280mm lenses without stabi - for example.

The x1dii is fine for me to shoot up to iso 6400 if needed, so I did not have the feeling to miss any shots because of not having ibis. But for sure I prefer lower ISO, so here too, I woudnt mind IBIS.

Remeber when we shot Kodakchrome 64 without stabilization? I also used Velvia 50. And PanF 50 ASA 120mm film in my Mamya.  

[ravinj]

For my use case, I find M10 to be best for handholding at very slow shutter speeds. Being able to get sharp shots way below the usual 1/F which I can't seem to do with any other camera without IBIS. Not sure why, but I guess it is a combination of ergonomics, shutter and "something else".

For longer lenses, IBIS is magic - I never was able to handhold the Leica 180 APO Elmarit and get a sharp shot, until I tried it on Sony A7II. 1/20  at 180MM and still getting tripod equivalent sharpness opens a world of possibilities.  Now I don't carry a full-size tripod anymore and have done enough of cotton-candy water shots to not want that anymore.

RRS pocket pod  https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1301001-REG/really_right_stuff_tfa_01_ultra_pocket_pod.html + BH25 ballhead covers most of what I need. YMMV, etc. There is a always a rock or a ledge/railing to put this thing up if I need more than what IBIS can handle. 

 

Edited March 12, 2021 by ravinj

[aksclix]

My GFX 100s arrived today and the 80mm arrives tomorrow.. The size of this thing is unbelievable.. funnily enough, I wish it was a centimeter taller 😌 I also wish the thumb grip wasn’t so thick.. it’s a bit protruding and I can feel it pinching the webbing between thumb and index fingers.. the x1d still wins the body contest.. actually I like the S body second.. although it’s much bigger, I just love the way the S fits in my palms.. for body design, 100s takes 3rd place in my view 

[Mr.Q]

Yeah the ergonomics of the X1D is just incredible.

[BernardC]

On 3/11/2021 at 11:12 PM, Succisa75 said:

It might be safe to say the S3 will prob be the last medium format camera from Leica unless they radically change things and develop new lenses.

The safe route for Leica would be to keep the same body and upgrade the sensor every 4 years or so. Which is what they've done since day 1. It doesn't hurt that the S sensor is similar to the M sensor (and has been for every S).

That's not to say that they won't take a huge gamble on a mirrorless medium format, but it would probably have to be targeted to different users than the X1d and GFX. That market may be saturated.

[BernardC]

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One thing about IS that is rarely mentioned for stills is that it can make the background all strange and distorted.

People complain all the time about that in video because you can see the background change shape in real time.

I first noticed this around 10 years ago when I shot an event with someone who had an IS lens. Their backgrounds sometimes looked very strange. You may not have noticed in single shots, but it jumped-out when looking at multiple shots together. The issue remains with IBIS.

To be fair, it's only a real problem when IS is working very hard: slow shutter hand-held. It may be worth it just to get the shot. On the video side, IS is useful to get rid of small vibrations, but not when things are moving around a lot. Gimbals, tripods, steady cams, etc., are better in those situations. There's also the low-budget version: screw your camera to a "2 by 4" (long wooden plank), and have someone hold each end!

[Alistairm]

I think I'm selling my X1D. The Fuji is just easy to use. Not as "nice" perhaps in hand, but just completely without fuss. And without the stinky rubber of the Hasselblad. Whatsmore, everything (including all the accessories) are vastly cheaper than the Hasselblad. 

Handlheld 1/50s @f/22, ISO3200 with a Bolt VM-160 ring flash (which is plug n play) with the 120 macro. In early use, the Fuji system is vastly more versatile. So I think I'll consolidate to M, SL and GFX. 

 

 

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[aksclix]

19 hours ago, Alistairm said:

I think I'm selling my X1D. The Fuji is just easy to use. Not as "nice" perhaps in hand, but just completely without fuss. And without the stinky rubber of the Hasselblad. Whatsmore, everything (including all the accessories) are vastly cheaper than the Hasselblad. 

Handlheld 1/50s @f/22, ISO3200 with a Bolt VM-160 ring flash (which is plug n play) with the 120 macro. In early use, the Fuji system is vastly more versatile. So I think I'll consolidate to M, SL and GFX. 

 

 

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About time!! Gfx system is a clear winner in many different aspects.. cost, performance, lens options, tech, IQ to mention a few!! 
 

I have just 2 complaints against the gfx 100s body design - 1) the thumb grip is just too thick and hurts my webbing! 2) the design is compact but it’s not as pretty on the outside 😌 

Now, competition has to either further lower prices or upgrade their gear in a big big way! MF is already the new FF.. I just wish the 54x40 sensor in a compact system becomes a reality soon

[SrMi]

1 hour ago, aksclix said:

About time!! Gfx system is a clear winner in many different aspects.. cost, performance, lens options, tech, IQ to mention a few!! 
 

I have just 2 complaints against the gfx 100s body design - 1) the thumb grip is just too thick and hurts my webbing! 2) the design is compact but it’s not as pretty on the outside 😌 

Now, competition has to either further lower prices or upgrade their gear in a big big way! MF is already the new FF.. I just wish the 54x40 sensor in a compact system becomes a reality soon

IMO, GFX100S is the best GFX body Fuji delivered (I owned GFX50 and GFX100). My main issue is the AF-ON button which is a bit in an awkward position.

Still, I prefer my X1D II to my GFX100S.

[aksclix]

2 hours ago, SrMi said:

IMO, GFX100S is the best GFX body Fuji delivered (I owned GFX50 and GFX100). My main issue is the AF-ON button which is a bit in an awkward position.

Still, I prefer my X1D II to my GFX100S.

I agree, 100s is the best gfx body out there today! And yea the AF-ON is a bit displaced to the left 

[Mr.Q]

I prefer the GFX100S for it's superior AF and IBIS, but it's very close, which is a testament to how many things Hasselblad got right with the X1D.  For everything that's subjective (aesthetics, ergonomics, handling, build quality, menu/UI, color science) the X1D is better in my opinion.  And nothing can compete if you want to use strobes outdoors.

[Alistairm]

12 minutes ago, Mr.Q said:

I prefer the GFX100S for it's superior AF and IBIS, but it's very close, which is a testament to how many things Hasselblad got right with the X1D.  For everything that's subjective (aesthetics, ergonomics, handling, build quality, menu/UI, color science) the X1D is better in my opinion.  And nothing can compete if you want to use strobes outdoors.

I'm selling my X1D 4116... but not my XCD lenses. May get an X1D mkII. Loving the GFX100 at the moment and think it'll get plenty of use. But I wouldn't be likely to take it on holidays! The X1D travelled the world with me. 

[aksclix]

8 minutes ago, Alistairm said:

I'm selling my X1D 4116... but not my XCD lenses. May get an X1D mkII. Loving the GFX100 at the moment and think it'll get plenty of use. But I wouldn't be likely to take it on holidays! The X1D travelled the world with me. 

You got the 100 or 100s?

[Alistairm]

21 minutes ago, aksclix said:

You got the 100 or 100s?

100S

[SrMi]

1 hour ago, Mr.Q said:

I prefer the GFX100S for it's superior AF and IBIS, but it's very close, which is a testament to how many things Hasselblad got right with the X1D.  For everything that's subjective (aesthetics, ergonomics, handling, build quality, menu/UI, color science) the X1D is better in my opinion.  And nothing can compete if you want to use strobes outdoors.

Long exposure is also better with the Hasselblads. They are the only ones who do not have LENR. GFX100S is pretty good without LENR, but there are always several hot-pixels if LENR is not used.

[Alistairm]

I’ve just ordered a 907 to keep my XCD lenses filled with light for a while. Assuming it doesn’t use LENR either?

[Mr.Q]

To those that bought the GFX100S and kept the SL2... the GFX is similarly sized with faster AF and better IQ. When do you use the SL2?

[meerec]

2 hours ago, Alistairm said:

I’ve just ordered a 907 to keep my XCD lenses filled with light for a while. Assuming it doesn’t use LENR either?

Nope. It doesn’t do LENR. Lovely body for all those delicious XCD lenses. 

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[stout_trapdoor9]

I received my GFX 100S about a week ago.  I wrote up an initial thoughts post on my blog, and I spend a lot of time comparing it with my Nikon Z7 and Leica Q2.  I want to go to the Leica store and compare the GFX 100S with an SL2 size and weight wise.  My original thinking in getting the 100S was that all things being equal in terms of weight and size, why not get the extra megapixels for what overall be a cheaper system.

I considered the Hasselblad X1D II. Price-wise it was fine, although the lenses were very expensive. The fatal flaw was that it couldn’t be used with Capture One and had no joystick. Size-wise it was perfect. The GFX 100 was too big, and the 50S was too fat. The GFX 50R and 50S didn’t have IBIS and the sensor is now 5 years old, same for the Hasselblad. Out of the box colours for the X1D were mind-blowing. The 50R didn’t have the extremely useful moveable EVF. I really wish the 100S had this. The GFX 100S hit the sweet-spot otherwise. The full-frame outsiders were the Leica SL2 and SL2-S. The SL2 had the same difficulties with high ISO as the Q2, and the SL2-S was perfect in almost everything but was too slow in AF and the sensor wasn’t big enough for the landscape prints I was envisioning. If you have to crop with the SL2-S, you are going to be limited in the size of the prints. I’ve printed as large as 17×22 with my Ricoh GR III, but I feel like I’m pushing it pretty close to the max. Lenses for the Leica system are just as expensive as Hasselblad. Yes, there are the SL alliance member lenses, but I’m not buying a Leica to use non-Leica lenses.  If there was a Q2 with an 85 or even 50mm lens... I think it would just be the Q2s for me, and I'd learn to live with the higher ISO limitations.

Questions critical to answering whether I will keep the 100S that I want to try and answer in the next few weeks:

1. Is it too heavy for me to carry around on a full day of hiking or travelling?
2. Is the sensor capable in the low light multiple city light pictures I love so much?
3. Is the IBIS good enough for me to dispense with the tripod?
4. Is it fun to use like my Q2 or at least not a chore?
5. Is the B&W output with Capture One good enough to make me stop thinking about getting a Leica Q2M?
6. Do the advantages of the large sensor outweigh the significantly larger footprint?

For those who are interested you can my find my thoughts here:

https://darkisthenightforall.wordpress.com/2021/03/20/gfx-100s/

Kind regards,

Sean