Need advice.

[Rafael Jimenez]

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I have the oportunity of buying a M9 with new style sensor instaled in 2019 by Leica, or a very good condition M10. 2500.00 vs. 4500.00 

The M9 comes with 6 mo. garantee, the M10 no garantee.

I understand that the new type of sensor in the M9 will not corrode over time.

Thanks in advance for any advice.

 

 

[a.noctilux]

Hello Rafael,

Welcome here.

- if you need the 2000 $€£ to buy other "things" (like a lens if you don't own one), the choice is obvious

- if you already have lens(es), M10 can be a good choice (don't forget spare battery 😉)

 

I use them for years, each one can give nice results, with good lens which for me is more important than the M body.

 

Arnaud

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[Rafael Jimenez]

I have 2 great lenses, a 35mm 1.4 from the 60's that works incredible  and a 50mm 2.0. I have used the M6 for many years and now want to go digital for some type of photos. 

What I am looking for is a reliable camera that will last a long time, and of course the Leica quality, and to use the lenses I already have.

Edited November 6, 2020 by Rafael Jimenez
clarify.

[Herr Barnack]

Since you already have two lenses, get the M10 as long as it is working properly and is in good condition without too much wear and tear.

JMHO.

 

Edited November 6, 2020 by Herr Barnack

[Ko.Fe.]

M10 will be supported longer. Just because it has newer release date. It has nothing to do with Leica or quality. Just how manufacturing and supply of parts works. No diffrence from kitchen appliances.  ..

[Raymondl]

In an ideal world you would have both. But if I can an option of choosing, I would go for the M10. It's much more modern in many aspects. 

[Al Brown]

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These cameras are worlds apart. One is CCD, other is CMOS. One is ten-year-old tech, the other is fairly recent. If you need high ISO and a nice menu to organize, get the M10. The worst that can happen is your shutter dies - a 600-800eur cost.

[Raymondl]

I have been compiling a set of known issues for M10/M10-P... as I want to be an informed purchaser when the time comes for me to decide on my next M (i.e eBay used)

I don't know how ”common” these are.. But I suspect these are rare. But you will be buying with confidence as the M10 includes a warranty period, so that should bring some comfort. 

But here are my notes of things to look out for:

M10-P freezing "blinking SD" requires logic board change

https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/292139-leica-m10-p-turning-on-problem/?tab=comments#comment-3643983

https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/308865-leica-m10-p-“brain”-freeze/?tab=comments#comment-3960598

 

M10 problems with repair services (under warrranty)

https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/313830-no-more-leica-in-my-life/

 

M10 shutter failure

https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/314266-randomly-appearing-dark-area-along-full-edge-of-frame/

 

M10 iso dial not working

https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/312953-iso-dial-not-working-on-m10/?tab=comments#comment-4038476

 

M10 firmware update via App (wrong firmware M10-P)

https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/295486-m10-p-firmware-on-m10-help/?tab=comments#comment-3707760

 

Cost to perform adjustments to a M10 range finder (FYI - "wear and tear")

https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/314357-m10-service/

 

M10-P Freezes

 

 

Leica M9

-Pink shutter

-Vertical column 

-Sensor ”corrosion”

[Rafael Jimenez]

So an M9 or M10 is very different from my M6 in the sense that I know my M6 can be used for decades trouble free under normal conditions?  I have used my M6 for 35 years and is good as new.  I suspect that an M9 or M10 will be like a short term camera, were the parts will be unavailable after a few years? and repairs very expensive?

[Ko.Fe.]

13 minutes ago, Rafael Jimenez said:

So an M9 or M10 is very different from my M6 in the sense that I know my M6 can be used for decades trouble free under normal conditions?  I have used my M6 for 35 years and is good as new.  I suspect that an M9 or M10 will be like a short term camera, were the parts will be unavailable after a few years? and repairs very expensive?

With dawn of film your M6 might become obsolete sooner than you think. Once Leica will quit on film M, it is going to be Mad Max for parts. With Don Goldberg as king of the hill with his latest purchase of ELC parts stock. But it won't last long either. Service is already not fast, nor cheap and only few places are available.   All of film M I had, have needed service. Not cheap, nor fast. 

But currently it is matter of choice. To deal with steady increasing prices on film, chemicals and darkroom paper or use digital M, which is lightspeed ahead of film M for getting the image , print done and superior to film M if you need decent amount of exposures. 

I still have film M which I barely use and keeping it just because if I sell, I won't have money to re-buy it again. My productive photography comes from digital M and other digital cameras. 

Images are not as nice as on film, but I'm trying to concentrate on the content now  .

[Steve Ricoh]

Yes as Ko.Fe said, there seems to be a gallop by certain film manufacturers to price themselves into extinction, notably Kodak. Unfortunate as this limits the choice of colour emulsions. 
Getting into digital doesn’t have to be expensive: there’s no need for the latest and greatest and once purchased (ideally second hand) the running costs are much much lower tending towards zero.

Again, as Ko.Fe. said, images are not as nice as film but content trumps everything. 

 

[Jean-Michel]

Rafael, I happen to own an M9 and a M-P (240), as well as 3 film bodies (M3, 4, and 6) that sit gathering dust. When I purchased the M9 I first used it happily, with my quite old lenses, but I since then I added current models and the old ones also sit gathering dust. I did not consider replacing either the M9 or M-P with an M10 primarily because the M10 does not have the horizon/vertical level feature of the M-P.  The M10P does have that feature. In my case that feature is quite important. 
I would definitely not spend $5k for a camera without warranty, and while there are really honest people who are selling their equipment privately, I personally would only buy Leica stuff from a legitimate Leica dealer. 

[Jeff S]

Delete 

Edited November 6, 2020 by Jeff S

[Jeff S]

13 hours ago, Raymondl said:

I have been compiling a set of known issues for M10/M10-P... as I want to be an informed purchaser when the time comes for me to decide on my next M (i.e eBay used)

I don't know how ”common” these are.. But I suspect these are rare. But you will be buying with confidence as the M10 includes a warranty period, so that should bring some comfort. 

But here are my notes of things to look out for:

M10-P freezing "blinking SD" requires logic board change

https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/292139-leica-m10-p-turning-on-problem/?tab=comments#comment-3643983

https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/308865-leica-m10-p-“brain”-freeze/?tab=comments#comment-3960598

 

M10 problems with repair services (under warrranty)

https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/313830-no-more-leica-in-my-life/

 

M10 shutter failure

https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/314266-randomly-appearing-dark-area-along-full-edge-of-frame/

 

M10 iso dial not working

https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/312953-iso-dial-not-working-on-m10/?tab=comments#comment-4038476

 

M10 firmware update via App (wrong firmware M10-P)

https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/295486-m10-p-firmware-on-m10-help/?tab=comments#comment-3707760

 

Cost to perform adjustments to a M10 range finder (FYI - "wear and tear")

https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/314357-m10-service/

 

M10-P Freezes

 

 

Leica M9

-Pink shutter

-Vertical column 

-Sensor ”corrosion”

The way to deal with this is not to buy used off eBay, but to buy from a reputable dealer, with warranty and return policy.  Even better if it has Leica warranty following a service. Dealers like Leica Miami always inspect first, and if necessary, send to Leica or third party service prior to sale.  I’d rather pay a little more and have peace of mind, further assisted by personal insurance covering non-warranty issues, including theft/loss.
 

Jeff

[Raymondl]

28 minutes ago, Jeff S said:

The way to deal with this is not to buy used off eBay, but to buy from a reputable dealer, with warranty and return policy.  Even better if it has Leica warranty following a service. Dealers like Leica Miami always inspect first, and if necessary, send to Leica or third party service prior to sale.  I’d rather pay a little more and have peace of mind, further assisted by personal insurance covering non-warranty issues, including theft/loss.
 

Jeff

Agree. I live in Australia and although we have a leica store, they don't sell used goods. I did purchase my M9 at the Munich leica store (used) they let me negotiate and were able to match an appropriate lens. 

But for me personally I would risk it once the price of a digital M has depreciated to a comfortable amount... ($4,000 AUD)....via eBay.. Keeping in mind there is PayPal buyers protection.. But Yes I still could buy a used leica from a reputable seller from eBay (leica USA) but the additional taxes/duties do add up fairly quickly

[Rafael Jimenez]

10 hours ago, Ko.Fe. said:

With dawn of film your M6 might become obsolete sooner than you think. Once Leica will quit on film M, it is going to be Mad Max for parts. With Don Goldberg as king of the hill with his latest purchase of ELC parts stock. But it won't last long either. Service is already not fast, nor cheap and only few places are available.   All of film M I had, have needed service. Not cheap, nor fast. 

But currently it is matter of choice. To deal with steady increasing prices on film, chemicals and darkroom paper or use digital M, which is lightspeed ahead of film M for getting the image , print done and superior to film M if you need decent amount of exposures. 

I still have film M which I barely use and keeping it just because if I sell, I won't have money to re-buy it again. My productive photography comes from digital M and other digital cameras. 

Images are not as nice as on film, but I'm trying to concentrate on the content now  .

Like when the CD replaced the LP, the CD was quiet, but the LP sounded a lot better. 

[AceVentura1986]

On 11/5/2020 at 3:41 PM, Rafael Jimenez said:

I have the oportunity of buying a M9 with new style sensor instaled in 2019 by Leica, or a very good condition M10. 2500.00 vs. 4500.00 

The M9 comes with 6 mo. garantee, the M10 no garantee.

I understand that the new type of sensor in the M9 will not corrode over time.

Thanks in advance for any advice.

 

 

I currently shoot both an ME and an M9M, both with updated sensors. The M9 performs beautifully up to about 800 ISO but is very limited above that. Although you can push the exposure in light, the results are often dicey. Note, this is NOT the case w the M9M which can easily go to ISO 6400. 

Given the choice between an M9 and an M10, I’d pick the M10 as that camera is much more capable and modern. 

[martinot]

On 11/5/2020 at 9:41 PM, Rafael Jimenez said:

I have the oportunity of buying a M9 with new style sensor instaled in 2019 by Leica, or a very good condition M10. 2500.00 vs. 4500.00 

The M9 comes with 6 mo. garantee, the M10 no garantee.

I understand that the new type of sensor in the M9 will not corrode over time.

Thanks in advance for any advice.

 

 

 

M10. Also consider M240P (still a great camera) if M10 is too expensive.

[84bravo]

Hands down, the M10 is a better camera. The M9 has a popular cult following for its CCD sensor, but truth is the newer CMOS sensor is much more flexible with ISO and dynamic range. The rest of the M10 is much more modern as well and easier to use. Remember, the M9 is a fifteen year old camera that was technically behind the curve when it was introduced.

If the M10 is out of your price range, consider a used M240 or better yet, the M-P240. It is very affordable and has a much more modern interface and sensor.

Something to keep in mind about your 35mm f1.4. Many of the older pre-asph Summilux 35s need to be modified to mount on digital M cameras.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Jeff S]

On 11/13/2020 at 9:00 PM, 84bravo said:

Remember, the M9 is a fifteen year old camera that was technically behind the curve when it was introduced.

 

Eleven years... 9/9/09.

Jeff