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LraStn

Randomly appearing dark area along full edge of frame

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Has anyone ever experienced an unexplained shadowy gradient area along the edge of the frame as shown in the photos below? 

I've been shooting with my M10 close to a year now and I mainly use it for weddings and portraits. As a very rough estimate, I have put 15,000 clicks on it in the last year. In recent weeks, I have noticed a strange darkened area appear randomly on the  frame in some photos, but not all. It's on the right side when shooting vertically or on the bottom when shooting horizontally. I have so far only noticed it happening with photos shot with the Noctilux .95, and I can't replicate it although it continues to happen randomly.  I've uploaded a few files as example, from different days showing both the strange dark area as well as images that don't have it. I understand shooting at .95 I will have vignetting as shown in the second wedding photo, but the shadow area is very different and I don't understand why it's happening. 

 

Edited by LraStn

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Interesting… could it be a "frame" option turning on-&-off in your photo edit software?  

It has the look of a thin frame line, drawn by software, around a photo, as an option.  This is also available in spreadsheet software where you can place just one line on any one side of the photo or text.  

Of course you can also put a frame-line on all sides of images/text, but you don't have to, you can just put a frame-line down one side if you like.

Maybe the option is a software bug turing it on and off?

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Do you use an ever-ready case or a lens hood? Does the effect appear more pronounced when focusing on greater distances?

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2 hours ago, Tom1234 said:

Interesting… could it be a "frame" option turning on-&-off in your photo edit software?  

It has the look of a thin frame line, drawn by software, around a photo, as an option.  This is also available in spreadsheet software where you can place just one line on any one side of the photo or text.  

Of course you can also put a frame-line on all sides of images/text, but you don't have to, you can just put a frame-line down one side if you like.

Maybe the option is a software bug turing it on and off?

 

59 minutes ago, pop said:

Do you use an ever-ready case or a lens hood? Does the effect appear more pronounced when focusing on greater distances?

@Tom1234 It's definitely happening in camera, I can see it in playback right away.  @pop  I don't use any case or lens hood, other than the built in Noctilux hood. I'm generally focusing 6-10 feet from my subject. 

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I've seen that in old film cameras where one of the shutter curtains would drag during the end of the exposure, staying closed just a bit when is should have been open fully.  I'd think an M10 would be immune to such a thing.

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From Don at DAG Camera in the US (he is a very reputable repair resource for Leica lenses):

"Looking at your photos seems to indicate that the shutter has a problem. Try shooting at a high shutter speed, chances are you'll see this problem. Then stop the lens down & shoot at a much slower speed & see if the problem is still there because shutter problems like yours usually only happen at fast shutter speeds. If the problem does happen at a slower speed, remove the lens, set the shutter speed to "B", shoot the camera & see if you can inspect the shutter curtain to see if its fully open, but do the fast speed & then slow speed first. Sounds like you'll have to send in your camera to Leica, USA"

I'm not happy that a camera that is supposed to be so well made can't handle professional use, and the shutter is giving me problems already. I'm not jumping ship since nothing compares to Leica, but I am super annoyed that my ship is leaking. 

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Of equal or greater concern is… if you send it in, will they fix it?  

I paid $800 to send in to Leica repair, a Tri-Elmar 28-35-50 to get the focal-length-shift-collar fixed, and they did not fix it, though it was improved, yet they did charge me.  

This is the second time this has happened since the same happened years ago with a Tele-Elmarit-M 90mm 2.8 M lens that I paid for CLA but it was not done - so I paid twice sending it to DAG who did clean it.  And that 90mm 2.8 Tele-Elmart was refused by another repair place that would not CLA it saying it was too complex to take apart.  But Don at DAG did clean it… he must have the magic hands...

I sent an email to Leica Germany backing Leica USA as doing the best they could with repairs given their circumstances back when Leica went unprofitable and was appreciated for it when I called Leica USA for some other issue: too many blinking lights in the M7 display - I wanted to turn off the blinking when I purposely adjusted the ASA differently than was on the film can, but they could not stop the blinking, but they were willing to try other adjustments - THANK YOU LEICA USA.  Nothing should bother the user when they look through the rangefinder especially blinking.

The above is another reason I use DAG repair since he has an extremely high hit rate on fixes. Yet, I think that some Leica parts may be so complex that no one can fix them except the factory?  I took apart an Old Leica Viso and the design of how many threads to turn a collar had to be exact for one of the parts to come off and also go back on - this is brilliant design or maybe too complex… the engineers have to make some judgement calls on just how much design complexity makes sense.  

Regardless of the above comments - an expensive camera should be repairable to maintain its value… we should not be paying these prices, new or used, for a use-&-discard or unrepairable piece of equipment.  

I am NOT calling Leica a use-&-discard-when-old camera or unrepairable… just commenting that in these trying economic times obviously all the camera companies are having a repair problem as internet comments show.  I should say that I have had probably 15 Leica M lenses CLA'd with no problems and they replaced my M9 sensor for free.  So there is much integrity in their repairs except maybe for some rather extreme situations. 

Is there a repair "appeal" system at Leica - someone to talk/email to?

Edited by Tom1234
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@Tom1234 I certainly hope they can fix one of their flagship models... my bigger concern at the moment is how long will it take, how long will I be without my favorite camera? I would buy another as back up because I've known for a while I need a back up, but my savings just went into a home purchase and a Ducati that in retrospect seems less important than a working M10.  I'll be calling Leica tomorrow during business hours to see if I can talk to someone about it. I bought the camera open box from a seller on eBay, so I probably don't have much recourse on warranty but I do have business insurance for all my gear. 

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Shutter problems can happen at any number of clicks, it appears that you are unlucky. Leica can easily replace it, provideD that the parts have been supplied at the present time. The shutter is most likely by Copal. 

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On 10/19/2020 at 4:14 PM, Tom1234 said:

sending it to DAG who did clean it. ............................ But Don at DAG did clean it… he must have the magic hands...

 

I have made it a general policy to just sent lenses to DAG :)  He won't repair circuit boards and such like electronics, but if it's lenses he's an outstanding choice.

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Circuit boards! Don't mention them!  But if we do, I like individual discrete electronic parts with legs.

I had a big screen TV that quit and NO ONE would work on it… they said it used SMD's (surface mount devices) that sit flat on the circuit board, no wire legs, so when one of the glued-on/soldered-on ends of the part "lifts" off the circuit board like by 1/64th of an inch and the contact corrodes from moisture, then it is undetectably broken!  Like 20, 30, or 40 of these SMD's were used on the the big screen TV circuit boards, so the service people said it was impossible to find the problem, so they would not work on it.  Two guys and a truck picked up the TV and took it to the trash dump… now it is a home to stray cats.

Service people in Don's position can not possibly track all the circuit boards and changes… I think there may be a business in the electronics-only portion of Camera repair completely separate from the mechanics. 

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Agree with @jaapv. Leica will replace the whole shutter. It is one of the few parts in an M10 that wears out because if use.

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Does someone know how much this cost to repair? I have the same issue since yesterday! Everything that‘s shot with an shutter speed of 1/3000 or above will get me a black line in the bottom.

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@mheine I have no idea, as I was able to get my insurance to replace the M10. I use it for every photo shoot I do for my clients, and I couldn't wait months for a repair. If you find out, let me know- I'm concerned it may happen again. 

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