Guest Posted January 16, 2021 Share #121 Posted January 16, 2021 Advertisement (gone after registration) A personal view for sure, but when I look at work posted here on the M forum I've yet to see anything that justifies the upgrade to the R from the P......... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 16, 2021 Posted January 16, 2021 Hi Guest, Take a look here M10 Upgreade to M10-R or not?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
jplomley Posted January 16, 2021 Share #122 Posted January 16, 2021 4 hours ago, petermullett said: A personal view for sure, but when I look at work posted here on the M forum I've yet to see anything that justifies the upgrade to the R from the P......... It’s very visible in print, particularly for subjects with fine details. Shockingly so. In fact I don’t think I’ll ever go back to 24 MP, but then my standard print size is 16x24. YMMV. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robsonj Posted January 16, 2021 Share #123 Posted January 16, 2021 1 minute ago, Steven said: I don’t print, so 24 is fine with me. Although sometimes I wonder if I should make my photos future proof for printing, but hated the R too much to do it. Future proofing has always been my mantra for digital photography, those 16k displays will be here eventually. What didn’t you like about the R that made you ‘hate’ it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robsonj Posted January 16, 2021 Share #124 Posted January 16, 2021 2 minutes ago, Steven said: There’s a 20 pages discussing it but basically all my images were blurry if I was under 1/250th of a second. That’s the problème with high res sensors. Works for some, but didn’t work for my style of shooting. Mainly handled on the go. Got it, fair enough Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 16, 2021 Share #125 Posted January 16, 2021 1 hour ago, jplomley said: It’s very visible in print, particularly for subjects with fine details. Shockingly so. In fact I don’t think I’ll ever go back to 24 MP, but then my standard print size is 16x24. YMMV. No doubt there's something in what you say, but I've had printed, ( not myself as my printers limit me to A2 size max' ), to 24"x30" and even a 24"x 38" from the M10's 24mb sensors, ( M10-P and M10-D ), without any problem and the prints worked out very nicely indeed. So as far as printing is concerned I don't think that is a completely valid comparison, so much depends on who did the printing, on what printer and of course what the subject matter of the image was. There are other factors that make the M10-R not worth the investment for me, file sizes and the much mentioned "image/camera shake" problems that I too experienced when testing out a R for a couple of weeks....I was tempted for sure, but decided after the tests that my 24mp M's do everything I need them to do right now and probably going onwards for the foreseeable too. Having said that, and whilst saying why the M10-R isn't for me and the two 24mp versions I presently own do everything I need at this time I still doff the cap to Leica for continuing to enhance the M line but at the same time I do regret the apparent cancellation of the 24mp sensors in favour of the R's.........Maybe next we can expect an M with the SL2-S's 24mb sensor that seems to be pleasing more than a few people? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeicaS2 Posted March 14, 2021 Share #126 Posted March 14, 2021 Steven is right about a high resolution sensors appreciating higher speeds, but fortunately they are also higher ISO so they can do that. I have been using my M10M on auto ISO with a requirement that the Auto speed is set in the menu for one divided by three times the focal length.( 1/3f ) rather than the usual 1/f. Recently I did a test to see if 1/3f was adequate. So I compared it to 1/5f on a 90mm lens. So my comparison was 1/250 (which is Steven's minimum that he doesn't like) versus 1/1000. I braced the camera for this comparison and found that 1/1000 did not give me a better/ sharper shot. I suppose I could also do the test on a tripod some day. I guess I should redo this test with my M-P reporter to confirm that 24 mp is perfectly good too, but I know comparing 24mp color to a 41mp mono is not a fair comparison at the extreme pixel peeping this test involved. I do appreciate the extra mp in B&W because I am shooting for structure, and I do crop in often in B&W. But the real advantage of the M10M to me is higher ISO allowing me to shoot very compact lenses without fast lenses. The collapsible 90mm macro-elmar is a favorite for compactness vs other 90mm options and was used in this shot. f4, ISO 160 and 500, yellow filter overcast day. The comparison of the two speeds1/250 vs 1/1000 is a 100% segment crop from a compressed for the forum full frame image included. The selected area of crop is marked by a white rectangle on the FF. The segment crop is one seventh linear crop. It demonstrates the sharpness of the collapsable 90mm lens as well as the resolution of the M10M. But if you don't need this kind of resolution or don't print larger than 16x20 a M10-P is just fine and I am glad that Leica seems to be keeping the 24mp resolution camera in the line up. To address your initial question, do you need to upgrade from the M10 to the M10R, my answer would be no. I first bought the M10M and then for color bought the M10-P reporter rather than the M10-P R. Different story if I had no M camera and wanted to get an M today. Even there, Steven would go for 24mp. Jack Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/313173-m10-upgreade-to-m10-r-or-not/?do=findComment&comment=4160052'>More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted March 14, 2021 Share #127 Posted March 14, 2021 Advertisement (gone after registration) 14 hours ago, Steven said: Great post, thanks for your time. May I suggest this the ISO capabilities of the M10M are far superior as the one of the M10R? Cheers, Stev https://www.reddotforum.com/content/2021/02/bw-iso-showdown-2021-leica-q2-monochrom-vs-m10-monochrom-vs-q2-vs-m10-r/ Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LBJ2 Posted March 15, 2021 Share #128 Posted March 15, 2021 On 10/5/2020 at 1:48 PM, jdlaing said: No. The A7r4 would be hobbled with a lens wider than 50. Not in my case. I experimented with my 24 Lux on the A7rIV with surprisingly good results, same for the 35 FLE. I posted 24 Lux /A7rIV sample images on this forum before. I haven't tried any Leica lenses that were designed for film on my Sony cameras nor have I tried 28mm and wider and from what I read seems something to be avoided. Leica M cameras and sensors are of course optimal for Leica Lenses followed by the Leica SL system. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LBJ2 Posted March 15, 2021 Share #129 Posted March 15, 2021 1 minute ago, Steven said: I get great results with my 28 Lux on my A1. Too bad the colour science is so ugly. Good to know. The 28 Lux seems an excellent lens from what I've seen. I don't own any 28mm primes, but don't feel I need to at this point. I do however like the look of the 28 Lux very much. And if one comes along one day it would certainly be a candidate to experiment with my A7rIV. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Likaleica Posted March 17, 2021 Share #130 Posted March 17, 2021 Back to the OP, if you're thinking about upgrading for greater resolution, have a look at the two-page spread in the lead article in this month's LFI, made with a M10-P. If you think you need more resolution after looking at that, then go for the M10-R. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bellaluca Posted April 24, 2021 Share #131 Posted April 24, 2021 On 9/11/2020 at 12:27 PM, agencal said: I had m10 before and now m10r.I use 50mm apo and zeiss biogon c 35mm f2.8.After used and tried all current m line i found these to be the sharpest of all.What changed after m10r? M10’s per pixel sharpness was better.There is more resolution for R but not sharper.You need to increase sharpness slider at least to 65 to get the same amount of ğer pixel sharpness(40 is default) at photpshop. M10 has that well known clearence which makes the obkects pop.I don’t see it with R.Also M10 is contrastier.Maybe increased dynamic range makes it look less contrasty becouse of increased shadow detail. Awb of M10 is better especially at shadow places.Awb of R makes a greenish color cast to every file at shade places. So if you need more resolution and like to give some time to raw conversion then cropable size of R files are good for you.Nothing more special. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bellaluca Posted April 24, 2021 Share #132 Posted April 24, 2021 Hello- I have the same thoughts. I have an M10. My biggest complaint is the shutter noise, I need the quietest shutter I can find, shooting behind scenes work. Also, trade in vs selling on your own. My M10 is also in mint condition. Would love to hear best ways to get the most $ for it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oswalt Posted April 24, 2021 Share #133 Posted April 24, 2021 (edited) I went from the M10 to the R. I wasn’t sure at first, but after spending two months with the R and getting accustomed to the files. It’s better in every respect than my m10. The highlight recovery potential is absolutely insane. I think I’ve blown out highlights once, and that was because the sky was 6 or 7 stops over exposed. The files also hold up a lot better to editing. They have a lot more latitude in how you go about editing contrast curves and exposure. This has been my experience with higher resolution sensors in general though. Edited April 24, 2021 by Oswalt Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ymc226 Posted May 6, 2021 Share #134 Posted May 6, 2021 On 4/24/2021 at 3:00 PM, Oswalt said: I went from the M10 to the R. I wasn’t sure at first, but after spending two months with the R and getting accustomed to the files. It’s better in every respect than my m10. The highlight recovery potential is absolutely insane. I think I’ve blown out highlights once, and that was because the sky was 6 or 7 stops over exposed. The files also hold up a lot better to editing. They have a lot more latitude in how you go about editing contrast curves and exposure. This has been my experience with higher resolution sensors in general though. This is great news. Both the highlight recovery and malleability of the files are great points, worthy of the upgrade. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Sik Posted May 6, 2021 Share #135 Posted May 6, 2021 I have been shooting Leica cameras for over 45 years now, I shot my M10 and a R today with my M lenses side by side at Capture Intergration in Atlanta (super outfit: professional photographers giving honest advice do yourself an enormous favor and check them out) and I did see NOOOOO reason to trade up neither did they, ONLY if you want to go big big print 30"+ you might want to consider it. We compared the shots side by side in Capture One! By the way Capture one is the way to go, really!!! Wanna see something truly amazing : Hasselblad 907 oh Lordy lord ! I'm going spend my planned R upgrade money on that one and then some, don't worry I'll take my Leica into my next life. Ron 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkmoore Posted May 6, 2021 Share #136 Posted May 6, 2021 1 hour ago, Ron Sik said: I have been shooting Leica cameras for over 45 years now, I shot my M10 and a R today with my M lenses side by side at Capture Intergration in Atlanta (super outfit: professional photographers giving honest advice do yourself an enormous favor and check them out) and I did see NOOOOO reason to trade up neither did they, ONLY if you want to go big big print 30"+ you might want to consider it. We compared the shots side by side in Capture One! By the way Capture one is the way to go, really!!! Wanna see something truly amazing : Hasselblad 907 oh Lordy lord ! I'm going spend my planned R upgrade money on that one and then some, don't worry I'll take my Leica into my next life. Ron For every opinion like yours there is one like mine. The files to me exceed the M10s files enough that I’m willing to deal with needing faster shutter speeds. (I’m over that now that I’m used to it). 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robsonj Posted May 6, 2021 Share #137 Posted May 6, 2021 I love the M10r for its resolution, and the crop ability, not so much to crop in, but to crop for 16x9. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Photoworks Posted May 7, 2021 Share #138 Posted May 7, 2021 I am so happy that with M10-R I don't have to base underexpose by 1 stop or more. With the M10-P I was always disappointed in skies and reflection just been with no data.. M10-R is very capable Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! this was taken with 21 SEM, for some reason the color vignetting is corrected much less then on SL2 3 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! this was taken with 21 SEM, for some reason the color vignetting is corrected much less then on SL2 ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/313173-m10-upgreade-to-m10-r-or-not/?do=findComment&comment=4196057'>More sharing options...
Crem Posted May 7, 2021 Share #139 Posted May 7, 2021 13 hours ago, Photoworks said: I am so happy that with M10-R I don't have to base underexpose by 1 stop or more. With the M10-P I was always disappointed in skies and reflection just been with no data.. M10-R is very capable Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! this was taken with 21 SEM, for some reason the color vignetting is corrected much less then on SL2 21 sem is on my list of next lenses to get. Do you find the color vignetting to be enough of a problem to avoid the lens with the R? Are you doing anything to fix it in post? I do agree with what you said about the R. Highlight recovery and base ISO of 100 are what this sensor really excels at compared to the M10/M10P/M10D. The extra resolution is nice, but not nearly as useful in day to day use. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robsonj Posted May 7, 2021 Share #140 Posted May 7, 2021 Just now, Crem said: 21 sem is on my list of next lenses to get. Do you find the color vignetting to be enough of a problem to avoid the lens with the R? Are you doing anything to fix it in post? I do agree with what you said about the R. Highlight recovery and base ISO of 100 are what this sensor really excels at compared to the M10/M10P/M10D. The extra resolution is nice, but not nearly as useful in day to day use. Different lens, but I had a 21mm CV Color-Skopar f4 that I never used on my 240 due to the color vignetting it exhibited. On the M10R... no color vignetting, the lens has become awesome for a lightweight landscape lens... (Coded as a 21mm 2.8 Elmarit) Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! (code 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! (code ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/313173-m10-upgreade-to-m10-r-or-not/?do=findComment&comment=4196503'>More sharing options...
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