Hoping that CL2 = mini SL2

[Chaemono]

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vor einer Stunde schrieb dkCambridgeshire:

The S5 would have been in design, development and beta testing for over 2 years ... as would any Leica variant. What is done, is done ... and short term there is no going back ... apart from firmware upgrades. Cameras are not designed overnight and EVFs are not just 'thrown in'.  EVF's (likely designed by Epson) also require many months development ... and would be an integral part of a new camera design from its inception.

dunk

24 MPx FF sensors don’t age. They can come out next year with it. 

vor 29 Minuten schrieb AdHox:

Which would be a little sibling to the SL2, and belongs in another thread.

It’s hard to see how a mini-SL2 based on the S5 could be considered as a CL2, i.e., a successor to the CL. Completely different shape and handling, a video hybrid rather than a photographic tool, and incompatible with TL lenses except in 10 MPx crop mode.

Certainly you are welcome to wish for a mini-SL2 to sit alongside the SL2, as a supplement or a cheaper entry point, but don’t call it a CL2.

Unless they don’t even bother with a CL2 then. They could use a 36 MPx Sony BSI sensor instead (Nicci knows all about it. Started a thread on it once 😂). TL lens user would be compensated with incredible lowlight performance for having to put up with “only” 15 MPx. M lenses could be an issue, though. 

Edited September 26, 2020 by Chaemono

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[AdHox]

10 minutes ago, Chaemono said:

Unless they don’t even bother with a CL2 then. They could use a 36 MPx Sony BSI sensor instead (Nicci knows all about it. Started a thread on it once 😂). TL lens user would be compensated with incredible lowlight performance for having to put up with “only” 15 MPx. M lenses could be an issue, though. 

While I’d be tempted by the right CL2, I’m also open to the possibility that there will be no CL2; in that case, just add the CL to the list of cameras I’ve bought that have been the last of their lines.

I wouldn’t bother with a mini-SL2 if I had only TL lenses. If I need to buy SL lenses to go with a mini-SL2, then there’d be no need to stay within the L-system. And with or without SL lenses, an S5/mini-SL2 is a very different type of camera to CL.

If a Leicafied S5 appeals enough then it’s worth its own thread and not lost in the CL2 thread.

[Chaemono]

vor 27 Minuten schrieb AdHox:

I wouldn’t bother with a mini-SL2 if I had only TL lenses. If I need to buy SL lenses to go with a mini-SL2, then there’d be no need to stay within the L-system. And with or without SL lenses, an S5/mini-SL2 is a very different type of camera to CL.

You only like the L-system because of the CL and TL lenses?

[AdHox]

15 minutes ago, Chaemono said:

You only like the L-system because of the CL and TL lenses?

I don’t dislike the big L-system; it’s just not interesting to me.

The big L-bodies, whether Leica or Panasonic, don’t offer me anything I don’t have already with other systems. Maybe they do, I’ve just never considered them because I my other systems work. Maybe one day I’ll consider an SLx and realise what I’m missing - and then notice the lenses I use that aren’t in L yet.

I bought the CL because I wanted a more compact camera (without a VF hump) with useful controls that would still provide good images for when the other systems aren’t appropriate - my wife almost tolerates my photography, but when I take a body with a f/2.8 trinity or even some chunky primes (a 135/1.8 is as chunky as a 24-70/2.8) it sometimes crosses a line. Hence the CL.

I  don’t have a collection of M lenses, so the TL lenses are a good option for my use. The EVF is fine for AF lenses, but for critical MF of M lenses I might want a nicer EVF. If the CL were my only camera I’d find the TL lens range too restricted, but I have other systems I use when the missing focal lengths or apertures are important - astro, sports, birding, wildlife, studio work, ...

[lct]

24 minutes ago, AdHox said:

I  don’t have a collection of M lenses, so the TL lenses are a good option for my use. The EVF is fine for AF lenses, but for critical MF of M lenses I might want a nicer EVF.

I don't count my M lenses anymore and i've yet to see one that i cannot focus accurately on the CL. I mean from 15mm to 135mm at least. Now the CL is a crop camera of course. A compact FF camera would have another name i guess, although the film CL is FF too...

[Chaemono]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb AdHox:

...

I bought the CL because I wanted a more compact camera (without a VF hump) with useful controls that would still provide good images for when the other systems aren’t appropriate - my wife almost tolerates my photography, but when I take a body with a f/2.8 trinity or even some chunky primes (a 135/1.8 is as chunky as a 24-70/2.8) it sometimes crosses a line. Hence the CL.

...

Try and see how she reacts to the α7C. 

[AdHox]

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1 hour ago, lct said:

I don't count my M lenses anymore and i've yet to see one that i cannot focus accurately on the CL. I mean from 15mm to 135mm at least. Now the CL is a crop camera of course. A compact FF camera would have another name i guess, although the film CL is FF too...

If you have too many to count, I can send you my mailing address.

I’d prefer that the CL name had been recycled for a smaller digital M, but as Leica used it for a TL in a more traditional form, I don’t want the water muddied further by another repositioning.

[AdHox]

2 minutes ago, Chaemono said:

Try and see how she reacts to the α7C. 

It has been several months since I’ve had the opportunity to test her patience. But COVID-19 case numbers are coming down again and one day we might be allowed to go somewhere together.

Before lockdown the CL was a generally acceptable compromise.

[nicci78]

On 9/26/2020 at 2:58 PM, AdHox said:

While I’d be tempted by the right CL2, I’m also open to the possibility that there will be no CL2; in that case, just add the CL to the list of cameras I’ve bought that have been the last of their lines.

I wouldn’t bother with a mini-SL2 if I had only TL lenses. If I need to buy SL lenses to go with a mini-SL2, then there’d be no need to stay within the L-system. And with or without SL lenses, an S5/mini-SL2 is a very different type of camera to CL.

If a Leicafied S5 appeals enough then it’s worth its own thread and not lost in the CL2 thread.

Lumix S5 is way too big.
Of course, when I think mini SL2. I am thinking of CL2 having the exact same size as current CL. 
Don’t forget Ricoh GR III. IBIS with APS-C in a tiny body can already be done in early 2019 !
So definitely possible in late 2020 or early 2021 for CL2. 

I am optimistic about CL2, because Leica is still churning out at frequent pace important firmware update for CL. What does that mean ? It means that CL development team is still active and alive ! 
 

Just look at the past. In 2014, Leica stopped releasing any firmware update for the whole X line. It just meant that the X team were dismantled and became the CL team. Focused at 100% at the new CL. Which have seen the light in late 2017  

Same for the TL team. Leica stopped releasing any firmware update in 2018. Same pattern repeating here. The TL team have been dismantled for another project. Hence no TL3 in the future.

 

So we just have to wait for the future CL2. It will come for sure  

 

[FrozenInTime]

More clues that the time for new releases is approaching :

ffordes are no longer listing new black CL bodies or kits. The TL2s have been absent for a while, other than an ex-demo silver body.

https://www.ffordes.com/c/213/leica-clt

[nicci78]

One store is not a clue. 

[g2van]

If by a mini SL2 means the following, then I'm all for it:

- weather sealing (but the TL lenses are not weather- sealed?)

- IBIS

- same body size and weight (or just slightly more, max 10%)

- reduce evf bump to be flat top

- no grip on body

I like Leica M and CL and TL because of the body design - beautiful, small and light. Once a handgrip is in the body - it just doesn't stay a Leica - (for the large bodies like SL, SL2 - that's totally understandable). Same with flip up screen (like Fuji X100V) - that's really useful but that would spoil the design beauty of the Leica body. Although, the handgrip somehow works on the T, TL, TL2 - but that body is a totally unique design and has to be seen in totality.

 

I'm fine with the APSC sensor size. Hopefully not more than 24MP.

The T lenses are truly superb in resolution and sharpness. 

 

Having said all this, I doubt I would get a CL2 even if my wishlist was satisfied - it's just so good as it is already. 

[cirke]

ill change my CL for  CL2  only if

36mp

better EVF

IBIS

[jaapv]

36 MP on an APS-C sensor? Not sure about that. The drawbacks might well outweigh the advantages.

[cirke]

or 32 , as far as they can go without drawbacks

 

[cirke]

i'd like to see the play button customisable , I nearly never use it , and Id prefer another function like ISO

[jaapv]

2 hours ago, cirke said:

or 32 , as far as they can go without drawbacks

 

I suppose that is a bit of a shifting target with evolving technology.

[nicci78]

TL lenses can support 45MP 

I suppose that 36MP is ok. 

But I heard that the industry is not yet ready to invest into new APS-C sensor. 
They are happy with 1.5x crop 24MP. And do not feel any rush to go after Canon 1.6x crop 32.5MP. 

So I bet for a release of CL2 in early 2021. March ? 
Same body size, same 24MP sensor, IBIS, higher res EVF, weather resistant, newer battery is needed for high consumption L-mount alliance lenses. 

That’s my bet. And it may be the last APS-C from Leica. 

Edited October 16, 2020 by nicci78

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[jaapv]

17 hours ago, nicci78 said:

TL lenses can support 45MP 

I suppose that 36MP is ok. 

But I heard that the industry is not yet ready to invest into new APS-C sensor. 
They are happy with 1.5x crop 24MP. And do not feel any rush to go after Canon 1.6x crop 32.5MP. 

So I bet for a release of CL2 in early 2021. March ? 
Same body size, same 24MP sensor, IBIS, higher res EVF, weather resistant, newer battery is needed for high consumption L-mount alliance lenses. 

That’s my bet. And it may be the last APS-C from Leica. 

“Can support 45 MP” is nonsense. A lens-sensor imaging system is not a weakest link situation, but an additive one. A better sensor will give a better image with any lens, a better lens will give a better image on any sensor. We have been over this many times on this forum, well documented. 

[cirke]

22 hours ago, nicci78 said:

it may be the last APS-C from Leica. 

why ?   based on what ?

Edited October 17, 2020 by cirke