Hoping that CL2 = mini SL2

[tom0511]

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vor 25 Minuten schrieb nicci78:

...

 

Hopefully Leica already knew all of this and will release CL2 with weather sealing and IBIS. 

are you aware that Leica TL lenses have no weather sealing?

I miss stabi in the 55-135 Telezoom, but not really much in any other lens. For movie however it would be a BIG advantage.

[panoreserve]

I agree with nicci78. IBIS isn‘t a gimmick - it‘s one of the most essential features. 

Btw: It‘s well known that OIS compromises (slightly) the IQ of a lens (esp. WA-lenses). So hopefully the „Q3“ (in 2023/24?) will have implemented IBIS (and of course a new designed lens too)...

[nicci78]

13 minutes ago, tom0511 said:

are you aware that Leica TL lenses have no weather sealing?

I miss stabi in the 55-135 Telezoom, but not really much in any other lens. For movie however it would be a BIG advantage.

Of course, I know. But I gave up on them some time ago now. Every other L-mount lenses offer a kind of weather sealing. Even the cheap newly announced Sigma DC DN.  

And M lenses do offer a kind of weather protection.

So CL2 have to be protected for all of those lenses.

Edited July 30, 2020 by nicci78

[nicci78]

24 minutes ago, lct said:

Seems like you are mixing FF and APS here. How many compact APS cameras have IBIS actually? Just curious.

Actually everybody (Except Canon, for now) offer IBIS in the small sensor world : 

• Olympus : every models in  m4/3
• Panasonic : almost every models m4/3
• Sony : Half of their APS-C
• Pentax : every APS-C
• Fujfilm : 2 of their high end APS-C 

I guess that Nikon will launch an APS-C Z60 with IBIS. And that Canon will either give EOS M an IBIS equipped body or release an APS-C RF body with IBIS. Or do both. 

[lct]

17 minutes ago, nicci78 said:

Actually everybody (Except Canon, for now) offer IBIS in the small sensor world : 

• Olympus : every models in  m4/3
• Panasonic : almost every models m4/3
• Sony : Half of their APS-C
• Pentax : every APS-C
• Fujfilm : 2 of their high end APS-C 

I guess that Nikon will launch an APS-C Z60 with IBIS. And that Canon will either give EOS M an IBIS equipped body or release an APS-C RF body with IBIS. Or do both. 

Thank you but Pentax and Fuji don't make FF bodies and Olympus and Panasonic don't make APS either IINW. So for now only Sony could be compared to Leica in that both make FF and APS cameras, right? 

[nicci78]

Of course Pentax does full frame. 

Just for you the full list :

• Olympus : IBIS in every models in m4/3
• Panasonic : IBIS in almost every models in m4/3 & Full frame
• Sony : IBIS in Half of their APS-C and every Full frame
• Pentax : IBIS in every APS-C & Full frame DSLR
• Ricoh : IBIS in their latest APS-C fixed lens compact
• Fujfilm : IBIS in 2 of their high end APS-C and their highest end Medium format
• Canon : IBIS in their 2 latest Mirrorless Full frame
• Nikon : IBIS in their Mirrorless Full frame.
• Leica : IBIS in their latest mirrorless full frame

IBIS will be available into every camera of any sensor size. It is inevitable 

Edited July 30, 2020 by nicci78

[ynp]

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2 hours ago, nicci78 said:

IBIS will solve a real problem for me, by adding stabilisation for hand holding long R lenses. Stable viewing = more accurate manual focusing + lower shutter speed, allowing lower ISO. 

IBIS is even more important, when Leica only sold 3 lenses with OIS : Summilux-Q 28mm asph of Q/Q2  + Vario-Elmarit-SL 24-90mm Asph + APO-Vario-Elmarit-SL 90-280mm.

+1

for me my CL is a travel camera which I use mostly with my M and R Lenses, usually alongside  my M camera. The viewfinder stabilization will be very useful, even more useful than the stabilization of the sensor itself  

I am trying to find reasons not to buy the Sl2 and a modern CL2 without the wandering focus point and IBIS stabilization will save me some money on the long run. 
...and add a joystick please. 

Edited July 30, 2020 by ynp

[nicci78]

Oh yes. Stable viewing is the main benefit here. 
What people don’t understand is that mirrorless camera will suffer of blurry viewing without OIS or IBIS. The longer the lens is, the blurrier it will be.  Because the viewing is through the lens. Something that did not happen with rangefinder clear view. A clear advantage of M bodies. 

[Jeff S]

Which is why I’m quite happy to experience and complement M use (RF only) with the SL2, with IBIS and weather sealing, particularly using the 2 longer sealed SL zooms that add OIS. Don’t much care about competition or long term viability of system; it satisfies my needs for now. I’ll let Leica figure out their future, merely hoping for a COVID vaccine so I can get back to using the gear I have.

Jeff

[lct]

2 hours ago, nicci78 said:

IBIS will be available into every camera of any sensor size. It is inevitable

Thank you but you're still mixing FF and APS with respect. The problem as i feel it is not IBIS per se but size. Increasing the size of the CL is the least thing i would do, let alone if Leica launches a compact full frame mirrorless camera soon or late. 

[colmac]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb nicci78:

Oh yes. Stable viewing is the main benefit here. 
What people don’t understand is that mirrorless camera will suffer of blurry viewing without OIS or IBIS. The longer the lens is, the blurrier it will be.  Because the viewing is through the lens. Something that did not happen with rangefinder clear view. A clear advantage of M bodies. 

Dead on Nicci. Accidentally switch off Power OIS on a Pana telephoto lens and feel instantly seasick.

Edited July 30, 2020 by colmac

[FrozenInTime]

32 minutes ago, lct said:

Thank you but you're still mixing FF and APS with respect. The problem as i feel it is not IBIS per se but size. Increasing the size of the CL is the least thing i would do, let alone if Leica launches a compact full frame mirrorless camera soon or late. 

The trick here is to keep the CL2 small, and repurpose the risk taking TL platform, making it a little bigger to include a integral EVF , add IBIS ... i.e. a mini SL.

Keep the HDMI port, add mic and earphone jacks and allow USB-C power for long run time with video and OIS lenses.

[LocalHero1953]

FWIW, I have tried long run video on the TL2 - it shut down well before the tax-related 30 minute limit, with a hot casing, so probably because of overheating. The SL2 and Panasonic S1 are large, and the Sigma fp has a heat sink. I'm not convinced you can get a long run out of the CL or TL2 sized body.

[jaapv]

5 minutes ago, colmac said:

Dead on Nicci. Switch off Power OIS on a Pana telephoto lens and feel instantly seasick.

Miraculously I never had that problem with long lenses, long before stabilization was invented. Maybe a case for improving your long-lens shooting technique?

[jaapv]

6 minutes ago, FrozenInTime said:

The trick here is to keep the CL2 small, and repurpose the risk taking TL platform, making it a little bigger to include a integral EVF , add IBIS ... i.e. a mini SL.

Keep the HDMI port, add mic and earphone jacks and allow USB-C power for long run time with video and OIS lenses.

The TL already has a rudimentary IBIS - it works too.

[colmac]

vor 2 Minuten schrieb jaapv:

Miraculously I never had that problem with long lenses, long before stabilization was invented. Maybe a case for improving your long-lens shooting technique?

You probably used a tripod Jaap..

[LocalHero1953]

Until the Leica 90-280L zoom came along for the SL I used a 80-200R zoom, hand held, for photographing small children's 'music & movement' classes, among other things. Zero problems with seeing the subjects (fast moving rugrats). Sure, the 90-280 did it better, but only because I could use slower shutter speeds, not because I couldn't see to frame & focus with the R.

Edited July 30, 2020 by LocalHero1953

[jaapv]

2 hours ago, colmac said:

You probably used a tripod Jaap..

Err.... No. my wildlife photography is not suited to tripod use. I only take it out when I want to shoot the moon or something. 

[nicci78]

Funny how it is always the same story. 
You always have three sides : 
- the don’t change anything. 
- please improve this and this. 
- the change everything 
 

The first group is almost useless for any manufacturer. Because they are already happy with what they got. So they will probably never buy the next version. 
The second one, love the camera but need some features to make it awesome. 
The last, did not like the camera at all. And would like something completely different. Better buy anything else maybe ? 
 

So Leica will only try to cater to the second and third group. 
Listening to third group give us the CL. It got everything that people dislike about the TL. 
Listening to second group and not to third group. Give us the SL2. Leica did not make a smaller SL. Keep it the same, then add IBIS and higher MP count. 
 

 

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[jaapv]

And then there are the compulsive upgraders who will buy any new shiny toy regardless.