Hoping that CL2 = mini SL2

[Le Chef]

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With regard to the poorly designed grip, all Leica has to do is build a new grip with a cutout where the "trapdoor" is for battery and memory card. Sorted.

[nicci78]

6 hours ago, cj3209 said:

I don't know; I'm pretty good with the small compact size of the CL.  Any larger (incorporating OIS, bigger battery, etc.) and I might as well just get an SL or SL2.

I think perhaps Leica might give us some IS lenses which would make more sense than adding OIS to the body.  Plus a new Leica case that allows easy access to the battery/SD card and has a built-in arca plate...wait, it's already available in the Lim's Case for the CL.

 

 

OIS (in lens) is impossible to add into wide angle lenses and very fast aperture ones. 

You already know that Leica will never released IS lenses. Among the 17 (announced and already released ones) SL and TL lenses. Only 2 have OIS. M lenses will never have OIS. So it will be far easier and cheaper to release one new body with IBIS.

Actually Leica has no choice than to add IBIS to CL2. Otherwise the APS-C line up is doomed. 

Before TL2/CL released in 2017, only one APS-C mirrorless with IBIS exists : Sony A6500. Today, you got two Fujifilm X-H1 and X-T4. Even Nikon got the memo and launched its mirrorless line up with IBIS : Z5, Z6 & Z7. Canon gave in and launched R6 & R5 with IBIS too. 

With Olympus, Ricoh/Pentax, Panasonic, Sony, Fujifilm, Nikon and Canon embracing IBIS. It is impossible for Leica to ignore the feature. They already opened the pandora box by releasing the SL2. It is now impossible to go back to old days. 

[LocalHero1953]

7 hours ago, Le Chef said:

With regard to the poorly designed grip, all Leica has to do is build a new grip with a cutout where the "trapdoor" is for battery and memory card. Sorted.

A wasted opportunity IMO - much better to use the grip to provide extra battery capacity. I never needed a spare battery in a day's shooting with a M240. I only need a spare for the SL if I am doing intense shooting through the day. I rarely go out without a spare battery for the CL - and if I do, it's only after checking there are three bars of capacity on the LCD. 

[Le Chef]

I think you can resolve that the way the Q2 has: more efficient electronics and a bigger battery without the need for a battery grip.

[nicci78]

Good point Chef. If Q2 can make it. CL should also. 
Because Q, CL and Q2 share essentially the same body. Only height differs between Q/Q2 and CL. 
Leica can make CL taller, in order to fit the BP-SCL4, IBIS and weather sealing.

CL2 can even use the same design as the Q2 : same height, same EVF, same top design, same weather sealing. 
If Leica can shove inside : a full frame sensor, the BP-SCL4 and Maestro II SOC. It should be possible to cram inside an APS-C sensor with IBIS mechanisms, a mechanical shutter and Maestro II SOC. 

 

[jaapv]

On 7/25/2020 at 1:06 AM, ynp said:

+1

the Lim’s case works well. 

 

Except that I really dislike cases...

[jaapv]

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On 7/25/2020 at 8:45 AM, LocalHero1953 said:

A wasted opportunity IMO - much better to use the grip to provide extra battery capacity. I never needed a spare battery in a day's shooting with a M240. I only need a spare for the SL if I am doing intense shooting through the day. I rarely go out without a spare battery for the CL - and if I do, it's only after checking there are three bars of capacity on the LCD. 

The problem with the CL is not so much the lack of battery capacity -actually with most lenses it is pretty decent- but the fact that the camera shuts down two nano-seconds after the battery-low warning is displayed instead of allowing another half-dozen of shots.

[Le Chef]

1 hour ago, jaapv said:

The problem with the CL is not so much the lack of battery capacity -actually with most lenses it is pretty decent- but the fact that the camera shuts down two nano-seconds after the battery-low warning is displayed instead of allowing another half-dozen of shots.

And that should be fixable with visual or audible warnings once you get to 1 bar. Maybe even a “You have 20 shots left” warning.

The other issue with the battery pack/grip is not everyone wants a grip, or if they do they prefer something that looks like a leather half case.

[Ecaton]

Keep it simple and shape, size and weight as is to be used as a real small set up with eg the 18 mm and add an optional battery grip option for use with longer lenses/zooms.

[FlashGordonPhotography]

I'm 100% behind Nicci. Bigger battery. IBIS, high resolution sensor, weather sealing. I'm not a buyer without a better battery and IBIS. For me, the EVF is fine. I'd rather have the battery life.

If we're designing, then:

Dump the controller and add a joystick (from the SL)

built in thumb rest (from the M10D)

Move the buttons to the right of the screen and solve multiple issues.

USBC charging

8 minute maximum exposure time.

Get the Fotos app working 100% reliably (so we don't need a flippy screen) with full camera control and menus.

Make the grip with an arca swiss dovetail and battery access.

Make the menus fully touch capable.

1 more custom button on the front of the body.

 

Gordon

 

[nicci78]

Make an X3 for small size lover.

Then let the CL2 get bigger. 

Because CL + Elmarit-TL 18mm is not an X2 replacement. Far from it. So stop pretending. And let the CL2 fly. 

Edited July 27, 2020 by nicci78

[Guest]

Seems Leica already introduced what you want. They called it SL2. 

[nicci78]

SL2 is very very nice. But still humongous. Leica managed to make it bigger and heavier than SL ! 
There is more than a room between tiny CL and giant SL2, for a reasonably sized CL2. 

[lct]

There is some room for a compact mirrorless for sure. A full frame one though, not APS-C.

[Guest]

18 minutes ago, nicci78 said:

SL2 is very very nice. But still humongous. Leica managed to make it bigger and heavier than SL ! 
There is more than a room between tiny CL and giant SL2, for a reasonably sized CL2. 

Nikon did this. When they introduced the D5, they added a mini-D5, called D500. It js bigger than most full frame DSLRs. Prefer my CL to remain as it is in terms of size.

[nicci78]

I am not asking for humongous D500 size. Just for a CL2 with the size of Q2. That’s all. Nothing more. 
Making it a little bit taller will solved a lot of problems : handling, inner space for larger battery and IBIS. 

CL has never been pocketable. Even with TL 18. So stop pretending. 
I have to add thumb rest and hand grip to make more comfortable. 
 

By the way I would love to see a modern and super compact X3. If you want it small, you’ll need a fixed lens camera. 

[LocalHero1953]

1 hour ago, nicci78 said:

I am not asking for humongous D500 size. Just for a CL2 with the size of Q2. That’s all. Nothing more. 
Making it a little bit taller will solved a lot of problems : handling, inner space for larger battery and IBIS. 

CL has never been pocketable. Even with TL 18. So stop pretending. 
I have to add thumb rest and hand grip to make more comfortable. 
 

By the way I would love to see a modern and super compact X3. If you want it small, you’ll need a fixed lens camera. 

Everyone has different hands, and I assume Leica makes the best guess it can at what the typical user finds comfortable. (My wife loved the Rollei B35, but it was too small for me). And everyone has different pockets. I've certainly carried my CL (or the TL2) in my jacket pocket when I had the 18mm. But I agree it's not practical normally.

The maximum height of the CL, to the top of the EVF, is already about the same as the Q2, but I wouldn't want the CL2 to be that height uniformly, not least because that would imply quite a bit more weight. The attraction of the CL to me is not just small size, but light weight as well. Add extra metal, extra IBIS mechanism, extra battery, and it starts to follow the same path as most modern devices, including cars: size and weight creep upwards as functionality and features are added, until someone spots a market demand for a small one again - and so the cycle continues. I hope Leica can resist the temptation, as they did when they shrunk the M10. 

Edited July 28, 2020 by LocalHero1953

[rob_w]

As for adding lots of stuff, I agree with the people saying "just get an SL2".  It would be difficult to add so many features without changing the CL concept.  And we haven't even mentioned overheating challenges yet (Canon R5 anyone?)

For me, regular, incremental improvements in sensor, EVF, battery life would all be nice.  OIS in one or two of the long lenses.  A few new lenses please!

Otherwise, what's not to like about the CL right now?

[ynp]

9 hours ago, FlashGordonPhotography said:

Dump the controller and add a joystick (from the SL)

It’s the only thing that I would really like to add to the CL2 from your extensive list. 
 

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Hallo,

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[lct]

9 minutes ago, rob_w said:

It would be difficult to add so many features without changing the CL concept.

+1. The film CL was significantly smaller and nobody would have asked for the same features as Leica M's then. The size of the Q2 would be fine for a full frame mirrorless though.