Staying put... or time to move on

[Tragg]

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Are you hankering after the M10R or are you happy with your M10?

[Knipsknecht]

Happy with my M10😁! Even my M9 and its 18MP are still quite enough for my style of shooting. Think I will wait for the M11 and what it will offer. Then I might decide to buy another camera.

[Robert Blanko]

Well, my M10 is not entirely unusable just because an M10R is now available... 😏

I‘m still seriously considering to upgrade, but what I saw in the German part of the Leica-Forum with respect to the increase in vignetting was surprising and does not support a positive decision on my side...

And if the M11 would be around in 2021 maybe, skipping the M10R would be justifiable.

 

[Tom Johnston]

57 minutes ago, Knipsknecht said:

Happy with my M10😁! Even my M9 and its 18MP are still quite enough for my style of shooting. Think I will wait for the M11 and what it will offer. Then I might decide to buy another camera.

M10, M9, XVario work fine for what I do and provide plenty to work with.

[TomB_tx]

M10, M9, and film Ms are all I need. No plans to replace any.

[adan]

I'm in wait-and-see mode.

Something like the vignetting mentioned above may just be a firmware problem - it took Leica over a year to adequately "tune" the color-vignetting correction of the M9 for the 21mm Elmarit pre-ASPH, with new firmware.

And I want to see - not just hear/read testimonials - exactly how the higher ISOs (10000+) perform on the M10R compared to the M10, especially banding. For me, that is the weakest link of the M10 (occasionally), shooting a 135 TE f/4.0 in dark concert venues or nightime news events. And possibly color stability at higher ISOs with the M10R - some folks have noted a loss of saturation, or questions about "oranges," but I'm always open to that just being operator error.

Right now, the M10R feels a bit like the M(240) compared to the M9: A slight boost in usable ISO (maybe), plus a lot of things that mean nothing to me, such as the touch-screen and higher resolution. And I bypassed the M(240) generation completely.

I find digital Leicas reasonably cost-effective, just so long as I can plan on getting 10 years of quality pictures for the money. It takes a pretty large and pretty effective new-feature set to override that.

It took a 2-stop usable ISO boost, and a significantly-improved RF/VF, and a much quieter, quicker (5fps) advance, and a notable decrease in body thickness, and the M9 corrosion issue, (and, oddly, a lower price!) - combined - for the M10 "classic" to push my M9s into early retirement after only 7.5 years.

The increase in DR  and highlight rolloff - depending on just how real it is - is a good argument for the R. But frankly, I solve that just by using nice lower-contrast 1980s Mandler lenses (or C/V replicas), for the most part. Plus -0.7 Exp. Comp. - just like every other digital M since 2006.

Edited July 19, 2020 by adan

[Jeff S]

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Very happy with the M10, but will wait until the dust settles, including potential FW update(s), and then demo using my own shooting, editing and print workflow.  Certainly not a rush, particularly in this Covid environment.  Plus, having bought an SL2 in the last year to complement my M bodies (including M Monochrom), gear is not a constraint from any practical standpoint.
 

I am, however, interested in reviews of the new Epson P900 compared to my current P800.  I often get more bang for the buck in the back end of the picture to print workflow. 

Jeff

[Printmaker]

While the M10R is the camera I was hoping the M10 would have been, I'll probably keep shooting with my M10 for the time being for a few reasons. First, and most importantly, the times are just too uncertain. I'm retired now and my income is dependent on investments. Finances could change with the latest tweet or a headline. Second, I just acquired a mint SL for long lenses and very wide angle lenses. This camera was an offering too tempting to let pass. So the next few months will be spent becoming comfortable with this new (to me) technology. And, lastly but most importantly, My M10 has proven to be the best camera I've ever owned. 

Maybe next year when the plague has passed and there is more political stability, I'll exchange my M10 for the M10R, but today I'll keep that $4k difference in the bank and dream of better times to come.

https://tomniblick.photoshelter.com/index

[Printmaker]

Hey there Jeff, we wrote the same thing at the same time. You were faster on the submit though. Good job.

[Herr Barnack]

The M10R is quite an interesting camera; it would be a worthy successor to my M-P 240.

I did not make any new M purchases for three years - a record dry spell -  and then I made up for it by getting a Q2 last November and an M10 Monochrome about a month ago; it's been a simply lovely last few months - in terms of Leica acquisitions, that is   At present, the Monochrom has my undivided attention as did the Q2 before its arrival.  Both are great fun to use and those big files are so visually yummy.

When the initial M10R stampede dies down in about 8 months, I may think about trading in my 240 Safari set on an M10R, if I can get more than $35.00 USD trade in out of it.  But then I'd be down a 35 Summicron. 

The way 2020 has gone, in 8 months Armageddon may well break out and we'll all have bigger issues to contend with other than being down a 35 'cron. 🙄

 

Edited July 19, 2020 by Herr Barnack

[Leicaiste]

I will not swap as long there will be a red dot. 

Waiting for the M10R-P. 

[Good To Be Retired]

I'd have one on order already if I hadn't just gotten another medium format system.

[SrMi]

5 hours ago, Leicaiste said:

I will not swap as long there will be a red dot. 

Waiting for the M10R-P. 

Without the red dot, how would I differentiate between the M10-M and M10-R :)?

 

[Jeff S]

10 minutes ago, SrMi said:

Without the red dot, how would I differentiate between the M10-M and M10-R :)?

 

The hot shoe engraving.

Jeff

[scott kirkpatrick]

With all of you patient people waiting to see how the Fall develops, I wonder who are the ten people in the line ahead of me waiting for an M10-R at my usual dealer?

[sutlore]

M10-p is my perfect Leica camera. No reason to change or move on. Unless... there is 24MP version of M10 monochrome, I might consider about. I know this because my Sony A7R3 proved me that I do not need more megapixels, 24MP is very fine.

[Mikep996]

At the moment I don't see anything compelling about the R for anything I do.  Yeah, the greater resolution is a good thing but I can't really see any need for it FOR ME.  I don't recall ever cropping an image enough that I needed that much resolution.  The dynamic range improvement is useful, I guess, but I don't see a problem with that on my 10.  I have always shot digital the same way I shot slide film - which was 90+% of all my color film shooting - expose for the highlights so I don't 'notice a limitation to the dynamic range of the 10.  Maybe if I did a lot of post processing I might feel differently but I tend not to do much of that other than some cropping occasionally.

Re the red dot - I guess I'm in the minority but I actually I like the red dot!  The idea that the red dot somehow makes a camera noticeable while not having it makes the camera invisible is...well...a bit of a stretch.    Frankly I dislike the look of that screw head on the D/others and, would prefer that the factory 'stealth' model - if it's seen as necessary - be a black/silver Leica dot.

This is sacrilegious but frankly, after using an M10 for several months now, I will say that the only thing I wish it had was video!      Yep, although I'm not much of a video maker, I do use it on occasion.  When I returned to Leica a few months back after a 15 year absence, I said, "Heck, I don't need video, if I want video I'll just pull out my iPhone!"  Yeah, well, it ends up being another 'thing' to fool with and I would like it to be available without switching. 

So maybe the M11 will have video!  And, of course, by then, the R's 40+ MP sensor will be outdated and folks will be wondering how they ever took pics with it .

Edited July 20, 2020 by Mikep996

[blacksinner]

i wonder if the highlight clipping and the longer shutterspeed will be updated in the m10/m10p in the future. i don't see any reason not to since the processor is the same with m10r. i would like that.

[scott kirkpatrick]

6 minutes ago, blacksinner said:

i wonder if the highlight clipping and the longer shutterspeed will be updated in the m10/m10p in the future. i don't see any reason not to since the processor is the same with m10r. i would like that.

The way Leica handled complaints of highlight clipping at ISO 100 in the M10 was to make auto-ISO start at 200.  That suggests that whatever was needed occurred earlier in the processing pipeline (on chip or between the chip and the buffer) than the data in the buffer that the Maestro processor gets to work with.

The change in highlight headroom on the `m10-R sounds like a real change in the camera's imaging response curve.  Some may remember when for the best tonal range, you had to move Zone 5 down on the Tri-X response curve.  Rate it at ASA 200 and develop it less aggressively.  But for available light scenes, you rate it higher and develop more aggressively, resulting in a different response curve.  We do that all now with the press of a button. 

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[T25UFO]

10 hours ago, Herr Barnack said:

The M10R is quite an interesting camera; it would be a worthy successor to my M-P 240.

I did not make any new M purchases for three years - a record dry spell -  and then I made up for it by getting a Q2 last November and an M10 Monochrome about a month ago; it's been a simply lovely last few months - in terms of Leica acquisitions, that is   At present, the Monochrom has my undivided attention as did the Q2 before its arrival.  Both are great fun to use and those big files are so visually yummy.

When the initial M10R stampede dies down in about 8 months, I may think about trading in my 240 Safari set on an M10R, if I can get more than $35.00 USD trade in out of it.  But then I'd be down a 35 Summicron. 

The way 2020 has gone, in 8 months Armageddon may well break out and we'll all have bigger issues to contend with other than being down a 35 'cron. 🙄

 

My sentiments entirely.  I also have Q2 and M10-M - they make an ideal combination.  I was thinking about buying more M glass, but 35mm and 50mm is all I need on the Monochrom.