TL/CL system needs way more native lens

[Einst_Stein]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Any wish for the CL line must accept one reality: You are not going to get it with the same IQ capable as the SL or M! CL will stay firmly as the mini SL. Also probably as the price wise entry level of SL (though this role is partly fulfilled by Panasonic and Sigma)

Bear that in mind, what other native lens do you want?

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[ruskkyle]

Be careful, using the term “entry level” on this forum will make you the target of all sorts of self-righteous BS responses

[Einst_Stein]

3 hours ago, ruskkyle said:

Be careful, using the term “entry level” on this forum will make you the target of all sorts of self-righteous BS responses

Ok, I mean l, the poor’s SL! 

[Boojay]

I will be interested to see what @nicci78 finds wrong with this one (If anything), this review has only good things to say about it, certainly for stills anyway.  The Panasonic 85mm 1.8 looks to make a great addition to L mount.   The size being close to that of the 35TL but a little lighter, it looks a great option for a medium telephoto. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mdg10cz5G0

I've placed my pre-order and look forward to trying it on the CL/SL2.   

 

 

Edited November 4, 2020 by Boojay

[Reggie]

59 minutes ago, Boojay said:

The Panasonic 85mm 1.8 looks to make a great addition to L mount.   The size being close to that of the 35TL but a little lighter, it looks a great option for a medium telephoto. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mdg10cz5G0

I've placed my pre-order and look forward to trying it on the CL/SL2.   

 

 

Interesting to compare the Panasonic to the Sigma 85mm 1.4 DG DN. The Panasonic is c40% cheaper, lighter and has 40% fewer elements (which should be great for micro-contrast if you believe in such things) but it’s only a little shorter and narrower than the Sigma. I’m very happy with the Sigma but the improved speed and LoCA over the Panasonic is costly in money and weight!

Bottom line though - and the subject of this thread - isn’t it great to have more choice of native L lenses? I can’t wait to see how the 24/35/50mm 1.8s primes from Panasonic turn out as I’m looking to fill the gaps between my TL18 and the Sigma DG DN 85. 

[nicci78]

2 hours ago, Boojay said:

I will be interested to see what @nicci78 finds wrong with this one (If anything), this review has only good things to say about it, certainly for stills anyway.  The Panasonic 85mm 1.8 looks to make a great addition to L mount.   The size being close to that of the 35TL but a little lighter, it looks a great option for a medium telephoto. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mdg10cz5G0

I've placed my pre-order and look forward to trying it on the CL/SL2.   

 

 

I don’t know. It is nice to see more compact lenses for full frame L-mount. It is excellent news for SL/SL2, fp and Lumix S. 
But it is not an APS-C lens !

We need more APS-C one. 

I am not sure about what same size same 67mm filter thread 24-35-50-85mm f/1.8 brings to CL vs smaller, faster, cheaper Sigma DC DN 16-30-56mm f/1.4 

Panasonic quatuor have the same light flux (watch Peter Karbe Art of M & SL lenses presentation) as 24-52-75-128mm f/2.7 when mounted on CL. 
Whereas Sigma DC DN trio have light flux of 24-45-85mm f/2.1 

If you do not plan to share between SL and CL. Just buy Sigma DC DN’s for CL. And Panasonic f/1.8 S lenses for SL/SL2. 

[nicci78]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Actually Panasonic Lumix S f/1.8 24+35+50+85mm might be final nail in the APS-C coffin. 
It is not too big. It is 2 cm shorter, same diameter but only half the weight of APO-Summicron-SL f/2 line up 35+50+75+90mm. 
And of course only a fraction of the price. 
Do we still need APS-C with such small and light lenses. Especially if paired with smaller and smaller full frame bodies? 

[Le Chef]

1 hour ago, nicci78 said:

Do we still need APS-C with such small and light lenses. Especially if paired with smaller and smaller full frame bodies? 

Why not ask Fuji and Sony that question.

[Gregm61]

I think this poster just enjoys being the negative doomsday “voice” here....

[oldwino]

5 minutes ago, Gregm61 said:

I think this poster just enjoys being the negative doomsday “voice” here....

Maybe, but he does ask some interesting questions.

[nicci78]

45 minutes ago, Le Chef said:

Why not ask Fuji and Sony that question.

I think that Sony made its mind. Buy APS-C if you wish. But they will only provide minimum service with this size. Same old body iterate over and over again. No more new APS-C lens.
Please use bigger full frame lenses. 
 

Fujifilm is the only APS-C full player. (Except zombie Pentax) catering beginners to professional customers  

Nobody else (Leica included) really care about it. And treat this size as entry level for beginners only. 
Three years ago I was torn between going to Fuji or buying CL. I bought the CL. The body is excellent. I am still loving it. But TL lenses selection is very disappointing compare to Fuji’s X line.
Especially when within those three years Leica released zero TL lens, left TL2 for dead. And released six Full frame bodies and seven full frame lenses. 
 

 

Edited November 4, 2020 by nicci78

[jimhuffman]

My 2 cents. I’ve owned a dozen systems. I am 60 and travel a lot. I want quality build, compact size, and lens quality. I am not looking to own 9 lenses in a travel camera. And, I really enjoy auto focus. If I could give up auto focus, I’d have an m10 system (again). If I could give up size, I’d shoot an sl system. The cl for me is the perfect compromise. Less options. But superb build, perfect size, and the 35lux almost never leaves the body.   The cl is not for every shooter. But until the cl, my fav system I ever owned was the contact g2. For me, the cl is a modern g2, albeit with larger lenses. That said, if I could dream?  Give me a weather sealed cl, with small 16, 35 and 50 crons that are weather sealed and I am ecstatic!

[jaapv]

3 hours ago, nicci78 said:

Actually Panasonic Lumix S f/1.8 24+35+50+85mm might be final nail in the APS-C coffin. 
It is not too big. It is 2 cm shorter, same diameter but only half the weight of APO-Summicron-SL f/2 line up 35+50+75+90mm. 
And of course only a fraction of the price. 
Do we still need APS-C with such small and light lenses. Especially if paired with smaller and smaller full frame bodies? 

I couldn’t care less about sensor size. Anything up to and including FF is miniature in my book. I care about the results. And the colours and contrast out of the CL beat the new megapixel sensors easily for me. The only other camera to be equal is the “old” M10. And M9. 

[jimhuffman]

Panasonic has neither the build quality nor quality of lenses. Please read my 3 criteria, for me.

[nicci78]

Don’t get it wrong. I love the CL. But after three years of zero new lens on the horizon is very disappointing. That’s why I am complaining.

I want to keep using APS-C in the future. Not forced to upgrade to bigger full frame, because Leica would have chosen to left APS-C market. It is still a possibility that future CL2 will be the last APS-C camera with minimal update to content TL lenses owners. Just look at S3 ! 
 

Now Leica chose to release another full frame camera soon : SL2-S. Instead of renewing the CL with CL2. 
It is crystal clear that full frame has top, second and third priorities spots. APS-C is only getting leftover and after thoughts. 😭

[jimhuffman]

I do understand. But I also understand that leica’s primary objective is monetary.  I can’t complain about their making decisions in their best interest. I’d love to see a cl2. I’d love more lenses. At the same time, in this ever changing digital landscape, consumers have been spoiled with regular updates. I purchased a Nikon F2 in 1976, and used that wonderful film camera until 2002, without ever a thought about getting a newer model.  I also owned an Olympus omd em-1 and array of lenses. I am so glad I sold that system before Olympus sold out because of the near death of m4/3.  I love the size, build quality, nd options I have with the cl, and doubt I’ll change unless and until something better comes along that meets all 3 of my criteria. And frankly, since I am a sucker for Leica build quality, I’ve become a snob when I hold cameras with less expensive builds. The fun disappears. And since this is a hobby for me,I need the fun factor Leica gives me...

[jaapv]

24 minutes ago, jimhuffman said:

I do understand. But I also understand that leica’s primary objective is monetary.

Actually, the monetary interest is derivative. Their first priority is keeping the company and brand healthy.

[Einst_Stein]

On 11/4/2020 at 11:06 PM, jimhuffman said:

I do understand. But I also understand that leica’s primary objective is monetary.  I can’t complain about their making decisions in their best interest. I’d love to see a cl2. I’d love more lenses. At the same time, in this ever changing digital landscape, consumers have been spoiled with regular updates. I purchased a Nikon F2 in 1976, and used that wonderful film camera until 2002, without ever a thought about getting a newer model.  I also owned an Olympus omd em-1 and array of lenses. I am so glad I sold that system before Olympus sold out because of the near death of m4/3.  I love the size, build quality, nd options I have with the cl, and doubt I’ll change unless and until something better comes along that meets all 3 of my criteria. And frankly, since I am a sucker for Leica build quality, I’ve become a snob when I hold cameras with less expensive builds. The fun disappears. And since this is a hobby for me,I need the fun factor Leica gives me...

Just switch to other brand. Any brand that  release new APS-c frequently.

Leica is bad！bad , bad, bad！

Edited November 6, 2020 by Einst_Stein

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[nicci78]

« Le monde de la photo » latest issue is talking about the main focus of almost every manufacturers into full frame only. 
For the editor, such focus will be a catastrophe for the photographic world. 
 

The lost of APS-C and m4/3 will be disastrous. Because we all need, fast and small cameras. Not only huge one with huge lenses. 
Limiting APS-C and m4/3 into entry level only, will only have one effect : killing them commercially slowly but surely. 
So even journalists have notice the lack of support into APS-C and m4/3. And they do not think that full frame is the sole answer for the whole market. 
 

By the way : Full frame is only 10% of the market in volume. But 20% in revenue.

So Leica please support APS-C with more lenses and more bodies. 
I did not choose CL because I do not enough money to buy SL. It is because CL suits me better. By being smaller and lighter. 

Edited November 7, 2020 by nicci78

[Einst_Stein]

On 11/7/2020 at 8:55 AM, nicci78 said:

« Le monde de la photo » latest issue is talking about the main focus of almost every manufacturers into full frame only. 
For the editor, such focus will be a catastrophe for the photographic world. 
 

The lost of APS-C and m4/3 will be disastrous. Because we all need, fast and small cameras. Not only huge one with huge lenses. 
Limiting APS-C and m4/3 into entry level only, will only have one effect : killing them commercially slowly but surely. 
So even journalists have notice the lack of support into APS-C and m4/3. And they do not think that full frame is the sole answer for the whole market. 
 

By the way : Full frame is only 10% of the market in volume. But 20% in revenue.

So Leica please support APS-C with more lenses and more bodies. 
I did not choose CL because I do not enough money to buy SL. It is because CL suits me better. By being smaller and lighter. 

If APS_C can match the performance of full frame, who need full frame?

There will be difference by physical law, ..., and by business law. Leica and any other camera vendors may offer improved products, but there is no way to match or surpass FF. 

Eat it!

Edited November 8, 2020 by Einst_Stein