TL/CL system needs way more native lens

[nicci78]

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🤔 who said that APS-C can match full frame ? 
Yes I know: Fujifilm. No need for full frame if you make really fast lenses for APS-C. 
 

By the way I do not look after full frame performance. For that I will use full frame camera.

I just want to be sure that Leica will not give up APS-C. Because Full frame cannot completely replace APS-C and vice versa. For now Leica is not showing any sign of good faith. That’s the problem. 

In the end, it is a classic case of vicious circle : APS-C is not treated equally vs full frame. Then sales of APS-C is not good enough. Feeding the loop to cut investments into APS-C. Which results in subpar sales again. Repeat again. Then Leica may think that APS-C does not worth it. Then pull the plug ! 

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[Le Chef]

8 hours ago, nicci78 said:

🤔 who said that APS-C can match full frame ? 
Yes I know: Fujifilm. No need for full frame if you make really fast lenses for APS-C. 
 

By the way I do not look after full frame performance. For that I will use full frame camera.

I just want to be sure that Leica will not give up APS-C. Because Full frame cannot completely replace APS-C and vice versa. For now Leica is not showing any sign of good faith. That’s the problem. 

In the end, it is a classic case of vicious circle : APS-C is not treated equally vs full frame. Then sales of APS-C is not good enough. Feeding the loop to cut investments into APS-C. Which results in subpar sales again. Repeat again. Then Leica may think that APS-C does not worth it. Then pull the plug ! 

Good to see you being optimistic. Why not wait to see what happens. In the meantime listen to some Leonard Cohen and read some Sylvia Plath if it makes you feel better...

[Einst_Stein]

9 hours ago, nicci78 said:

🤔 who said that APS-C can match full frame ? 
Yes I know: Fujifilm. No need for full frame if you make really fast lenses for APS-C. 
 

By the way I do not look after full frame performance. For that I will use full frame camera.

I just want to be sure that Leica will not give up APS-C. Because Full frame cannot completely replace APS-C and vice versa. For now Leica is not showing any sign of good faith. That’s the problem. 

In the end, it is a classic case of vicious circle : APS-C is not treated equally vs full frame. Then sales of APS-C is not good enough. Feeding the loop to cut investments into APS-C. Which results in subpar sales again. Repeat again. Then Leica may think that APS-C does not worth it. Then pull the plug ! 

How would Leica make you happy? a new lens? a new firmware? a new body? How would that matter for what you already have?

If you are looking for new firmware, your chance is likely to be bad. There is simply no meaningful bug to fix. A new lens? new body? I don't see what to want given what can do with the current offering.

The best you can hope for is switching to Fujifilm!  Fujifilm is trying to match the Leica SL FF performance with their APS-C.  ... or with their MF. 

[jaapv]

5 hours ago, Einst_Stein said:

There is simply no meaningful bug to fix

How about that blasted wandering focus point?

[Einst_Stein]

1 hour ago, jaapv said:

How about that blasted wandering focus point?

That problem is on SL too. Maybe everywhere of Leica. I almost forget it. I give up .  

[lct]

19 hours ago, nicci78 said:

I just want to be sure that Leica will not give up APS-C. Because Full frame cannot completely replace APS-C and vice versa. For now Leica is not showing any sign of good faith. That’s the problem.

Not sure if it is a matter of good faith. Rather well-understood precaution if you ask me. FF bodys are smaller and smaller and can fit both FF and crop lenses nowadays so the question is not if but when crop formats, at least one of them, will die. 

Edited November 9, 2020 by lct

[nicci78]

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9 hours ago, Einst_Stein said:

How would Leica make you happy? a new lens? a new firmware? a new body? How would that matter for what you already have?

If you are looking for new firmware, your chance is likely to be bad. There is simply no meaningful bug to fix. A new lens? new body? I don't see what to want given what can do with the current offering.

The best you can hope for is switching to Fujifilm!  Fujifilm is trying to match the Leica SL FF performance with their APS-C.  ... or with their MF. 

Don’t we just got a brand new 3.0 firmware for CL ? Very nice touch to bring Q2 and most of SL2 newest feature to CL. 
I was happy about that. But still not enough. 
A new lens. Yes please. I owned every TL lenses at one point. Then slowly sold them all. They kinda lose interest against my Q2. Especially TL 18, TL 23, TL 35, TL 18-56 and in a certain way even TL 11-23.

I even found macro OK with Q2 at 75mm crop. Making TL 60 redundant. 
Non stabilised TL 55-135mm makes it hard to justify : great IQ, but not fast, not really long and no OIS. 

Still love the CL. But what looks like a solid optic proposition before Q2/SL2. Became a very weak one now. 
 

I will never switch to Fujifilm. I hate X-Trans so much. If only they can admit that it was kinda of silly sensor tech. Sadly Japanese companies are so stubborn. They love to try to prove us wrong. Sadly X-Trans is no better than good old Bayer. Quite the contrary. 

Another stubborn company is Panasonic with its subpar DFD AF. Please admit defeat. No point proving right eventually if you are killing yourself in the process. Customers made up their mind : DFD = crap. No matter how you can make it better. It is too late. 
 

So ? I am stuck with not willing to support APS-C properly companies : Sony, Canon, Nikon and Leica. I do not count walking dead Ricoh/Pentax. 
 

m4/3 is already dead in my opinion. No Olympus = game over. 

[ruskkyle]

You sound quite difficult to please @nicci78 .... I think you should just buy a Sony A9 II and be done with it.

[nicci78]

I left Sony 6 years ago. It is not to come back now to their crazy menu system and all over the place tiny buttons 

I really like the CL. One if the best Leica ever made. But Leica made its TL lenses almost irrelevant with Q2. 
Hopefully Sigma saves APS-C line up with its awesome trio of DC DN lenses : 16-30-56mm f/1.4. 
 

So I will transition to Q2 Monochrom instead of Q2. Colour part will be taken care of by CL + Sigma triumvirate. 
 

I will wait until end 2021 to see if Leica still love APS-C, by releasing CL2 and another hopefully useful TL lenses. 
We can dream.   
If nothing happen in 2021. I guess that it will be game over for half size sensor in Wetzlar  

 

Edited November 10, 2020 by nicci78

[swatch]

there are sufficient choice of lenses if accepting manual focus and big size, moreover they are not the reason of choosing & using CL.  these lenses are not providing good user experience.  it will be front heavy of mounting SL 90-280 on CL even this combo produce very nice picture.

TL 23mm & TL 18mm are the perfect match to CL in term of size, good IQ and on par auto focus speed.  TL 35mm is big and I don't like compact body with big lens combo.

what make leica in a leading position is no other manufacturers can but only leica can make excellent lens in small size i.e. cron 50 apo 

is monochrom camera providing profit to leica?    economic return somehow is not the decisive factor for leica in offering a few products, believe their logic in not making profit from each product is to ensure strong leica brand in long term

in short, leica hasn't put their full strength in developing lenses for CL users to experience pleasure of using the system with native lenses.