Next generation M glass...

[ardbeg]

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On 5/7/2020 at 8:22 AM, pgk said:

I have to be honest and say that I struggle to understand the desire for increasing MPixels/resolution. I can't fit all my existing photos which are printed and framed on the walls as it is and these are from 18 & 24Mpixel cameras. Faster lens yes, but why not ally these to high ISO/low noise sensors so that they push boundaries in a different way - that said for an M the rangefinder focus will start to struggle unless this too is upgraded.

I fully agree. I'm more than happy in ~24Mpixel range and would perhaps consider ~40 but I'd rather see a focus on increased dynamic range from the sensor and signal processing algorithms than just raw pixel resolution increase.

[ardbeg]

20 hours ago, Jeff S said:

At least Mr. Karbe has shown another side by updating some vintage M lenses, such as the 28 Summaron, with apparently more to come.

This. I've been exploring older, low element count lenses and I love the way they render, imperfections and all. Outside of my desire for better dynamic range, re-issues of old lens designs with updated coatings and native M mount (rather than adapted LTM) would be great to see. I'd buy that.

Edited May 8, 2020 by ardbeg

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[Keith (M)]

4 hours ago, Peters said:

Why would Leica get rid of the Summarit line? The 2.5 range was a mistake from a hardware point of view, but they fixed that with the 2.4. Such a shame...

Indeed. The 75mm f2.5 I bought in 2011 is a really excellent performer and when I read that the Summarits were being discontinued I took the opportunity to buy a (discounted) new 90mm f2.4 from Ffordes last month.

[Guest]

Would imaging that the summarit had poor sales and so leica abandoned the experiment of cheaper lenses.

I have the 35 and 50 f2.4 summarits but have a feeling they are not considered as proper leica lenses by some.

[james.liam]

2 hours ago, steve 1959 said:

I have the 35 and 50 f2.4 summarits but have a feeling they are not considered as proper leica lenses by some.

A shame, since they are great lenses. Maybe they should have packaged them a bit higher scale, like in old garb; old Summaron barrel from the 1950's for the 35 or collapsible for the 50. 

[J.Nordvik]

The Summarits are still on Leica-camera.com and Leicashop.com. So why is so many people saying they are discontinued?

[pgk]

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Personally I don't care for the rubber grips on the longer Summarits, they do diminish the feel of the lenses and the machining required to match the grips to other M lenses couldn't have been all that costly - an odd design decision IMO, especially with such excellent lenses (I've had the 35 and used the 75).

[Donut]

4 hours ago, J.Nordvik said:

The Summarits are still on Leica-camera.com and Leicashop.com. So why is so many people saying they are discontinued?

Last stock. The Leica factory is no longer making them. 

[Fgcm]

Interesting tread, indeed.

I own / have owned 3 Summarits. Very good lenses. In my opinion, too many argued about this family because they didn't find the special micro contrast of the summicrons, so many of them did not value the very pleasing transition from focus to defocus and the smooth out of focus of the Summarits, especially the 50.

That said, I fear that the entire market is moving like a herd toward fat / heavy lenses paired with 47 - 60 Mega Pixel cameras. Have a look at the specs of the last generation of Nikon Canon and Leica mirrorless lenses. 

Maybe I'm standing out of the lines, but my dream camera is a lighter M10, made of aluminium alloy to save weight, paired with small and light lenses. 

After buying and selling too many lenses over the years, I currently use only very few of them: the brilliant Elmarit M 28 asph, the contrasty Summarit 35, the colorful APO Summicron 50 and the unbeaten Elmarit M 90.

About modern lenses and their perfection, I would like to say that these lenses require a full set of skills. If you exactly know what you are doing, you get great images. 

Otherwise one gets better photos with less perfect lenses which add livelyness to pretty normal images because of the optical imperfections. A sort of film look Vs digital effect.

I really hope that the next generation of lenses will include some good and small F2 / F2.4 to be paired with an ultra light 24 Mpixel M11, slightly smaller than the M10. 

[BernardC]

13 hours ago, steve 1959 said:

I have the 35 and 50 f2.4 summarits but have a feeling they are not considered as proper leica lenses by some.

Photographers love them, and collectors do not.

It's a very common conflict in the Leica community. In this case, it is to the photographers' advantage, since these lenses are relatively cheap (for now...). In other cases, a lens that photographers love becomes a "rare collectible" and is, effectively, taken off the used market.

So, by all means, enjoy your Summarit. But don't say too much about it. The last thing we want for the these lenses to spend decades in display cases (still in their box!), when they could be used by the next generation of photographers instead.

[Jeff S]

7 hours ago, J.Nordvik said:

The Summarits are still on Leica-camera.com and Leicashop.com. So why is so many people saying they are discontinued?

Because they are, confirmed by Leica and some reputable dealers like Leica Miami. They didn’t destroy existing stock.  First come, first serve.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/leicarumors.com/2020/03/18/confirmed-7-leica-m-lenses-and-accessories-are-discontinued.aspx/amp/

Jeff

[james.liam]

1 hour ago, BernardC said:

In other cases, a lens that photographers love becomes a "rare collectible" and is, effectively, taken off the used market.

So, by all means, enjoy your Summarit. But don't say too much about it. The last thing we want for the these lenses to spend decades in display cases (still in their box!), when they could be used by the next generation of photographers instead.

Were it so.

Photo Arsenal, the final resting place for Leica discontinued (including secreted spare parts for the R8/9), was selling a seemingly endless supply of old-new stock 75 Summarit ƒ/2.5 for years after it was discontinued. Speculation on my part, but perhaps the hope at Wetzlar was that the line would be the entry point for younger buyers and buyers in newly affluent markets (like Red China).

A silly supposition because with more free time and disposable income, comes brand consciousness and an appreciation for the finer things. Why go 'half-way' (though it isn't), when you can wait a little longer and buy the top-shelf?

Edited May 9, 2020 by james.liam

[BernardC]

18 minutes ago, james.liam said:

Photo Arsenal (...) was selling a seemingly endless supply of old-new stock 75 Summarit ƒ/2.5 for years after it was discontinued.

They may have served the same purpose as the car with the low price parked in front of American car lots. Gets you in the door, and then "for a few bucks more, I can get you into a new 2.4, maybe even a nice used Summicron..."

Nothing wrong with that, and maybe that's the role that Leica's product planners intended for the Summarit line in the first place. That was a long time ago (at the beginning of the digital era), when Leica was demand-constrained. They have the opposite problem now, so they should allocate resources to higher-margin products.

[J.Nordvik]

1 hour ago, Jeff S said:

Because they are, confirmed by Leica and some reputable dealers like Leica Miami. They didn’t destroy existing stock.  First come, first serve.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/leicarumors.com/2020/03/18/confirmed-7-leica-m-lenses-and-accessories-are-discontinued.aspx/amp/

Jeff

How is this any conformation?

[james.liam]

40 minutes ago, BernardC said:

 

Nothing wrong with that, and maybe that's the role that Leica's product planners intended for the Summarit line in the first place. That was a long time ago (at the beginning of the digital era), when Leica was demand-constrained. They have the opposite problem now, so they should allocate resources to higher-margin products.

Agreed. Just a miscalculation

[Jeff S]

4 minutes ago, J.Nordvik said:

How is this any conformation?

Because I took the time to call and confirm.

Jeff

[J.Nordvik]

hmmm

[Jeff S]

3 minutes ago, J.Nordvik said:

hmmm

Instead of dismissing, maybe do your own research. 

Jeff

[Jeff S]

And you can hum at LHSA, too, I guess.

https://lhsa.org/2020/03/phase-out-of-select-leica-m-lenses-accessories/

Jeff

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[james.liam]

23 minutes ago, Jeff S said:

Instead of dismissing, maybe do your own research. 

Jeff

Sounded more like a pensive ‘hmmm‘ rather than a dismissive one