M10 Monochrom freezes up

[Gerbs]

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Has anyone else been experiencing the occasional need to remove the battery to reboot the M10 Monochrom? I'll notice that it won't let me take a picture, pushing the shutter half down won't show the histogram, and sometimes (I think it's just sometimes) Live View is stuck on.

I've shot about 450 pictures (not all keepers, LOL) in the past 3 weeks, and this has happened around 4 times. I think there might be a sequence that causes it, but I'm not sure yet. I have been using Live View a huge amount, turning it off after the shot to preserve battery life, and often turning off the camera. Sometimes the camera won't even turn off, I've got to take out the battery.

Anyone else?

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[jaapv]

Maybe changing the SD card might be of help?

[Gerbs]

9 minutes ago, jaapv said:

Maybe changing the SD card might be of help?

Brand new card, I empty it after almost every session, and reformat it occasionally. Have you had issues with an SD card then? I can't think of why the card would make it so that after taking a shot, the camera freezes, but the shot has recorded fine to the card. Any explanation of your thought would be interesting.

[jaapv]

Sometimes cards do just that...

[Jeff S]

Or a different battery.

Jeff

[Jeff S]

And be sure all contacts are clean.

Jeff

[Gerbs]

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2 minutes ago, jaapv said:

Sometimes cards do just that...

LOL, well then, the luck of the draw perhaps. Right now it is tolerable, so I may wait and see how this develops. And try reformatting right away. Thanks for the heads up! It will be interesting to see if anyone else sees this problem.

[Gerbs]

2 minutes ago, Jeff S said:

Or a different battery.

Jeff

I have an extra battery on order, I will keep track of which one is in use if this happens again. Thanks.

[Gerbs]

1 minute ago, Jeff S said:

And be sure all contacts are clean.

Jeff

Everything is brand new, so there isn't much chance of that being the issue. Thanks

[jaapv]

6 minutes ago, Gerbs said:

LOL, well then, the luck of the draw perhaps. Right now it is tolerable, so I may wait and see how this develops. And try reformatting right away. Thanks for the heads up! It will be interesting to see if anyone else sees this problem.

Use SD Formatter - it is the official software of the SD card manufacturers.

[Gerbs]

6 minutes ago, jaapv said:

Use SD Formatter - it is the official software of the SD card manufacturers.

 

Would you then recommend that over using the camera itself? I had read a while ago a recommendation to use the camera, which made some kind of sense. But hey, I'll try SD Formatter, and if it don't have any problems in the next 100 or so shots, well then, alrighty!

[Stealth3kpl]

Back in the early days of the M9 many people were having issues related to SD card type. In fact there is a thread somewhere on the forum with an extensive list of SD cards which did not seem to cause problems. Try a different SD card (not too big) and format it with SD Formatter as Jaapv suggests. 

Pete

[Jeff S]

1 hour ago, Gerbs said:

Everything is brand new, so there isn't much chance of that being the issue. Thanks

Dust and debris moves around.  If you don’t believe it, search for all the threads regarding dirty sensors out of the box , or various QC issues.  S**t happens. Check or not...

Jeff

 

[Gerbs]

58 minutes ago, Stealth3kpl said:

Back in the early days of the M9 many people were having issues related to SD card type. In fact there is a thread somewhere on the forum with an extensive list of SD cards which did not seem to cause problems. Try a different SD card (not too big) and format it with SD Formatter as Jaapv suggests. 

Pete

I searched some for "SD Cards" and came across this from 2 years ago: From what I read "Use UHS I cards instead of UHS II. The M10 is compatible with UHS II cards, but does not use the full UHS II speed." "The Leica M10 supports SDHC/SDXC cards from 1GB up to 512 GB. We recommend to use cards with write speed 80 MB/s or higher in order not to restrict the cameras performance."

The card I got is a SanDisk Extreme PRO SDXC UHS-II 64 GB. So perhaps I should've gotten something like that but UHS-I instead. Another thought, since the M10M doesn't shoot video, speed isn't critical past a certain relatively low point. Next order at B&H I'll get something less zippy, but SanDisk.

I formatted the current card with SD Formatter, doing an overwrite format.

And Jeff S, I looked carefully, saw nothing but a few miniscule dust particles, blew them out with canned air, and reassembled. And out of the box certainly doesn't mean clean, I bought a Nikon a number of years ago that actually had a recall because so many shipped with filthy sensors.

So to all my new friendly helpers so far, I have, or am in process, of taking ALL your advice!

And I am totally thrilled with the M10 Monochrom, it takes me back to my days of roaming with an Olympus OM1, and developing in my darkroom.

[jaapv]

1 hour ago, Gerbs said:

 

Would you then recommend that over using the camera itself? I had read a while ago a recommendation to use the camera, which made some kind of sense. But hey, I'll try SD Formatter, and if it don't have any problems in the next 100 or so shots, well then, alrighty!

Actually I  normally reformat in the camera and only do a deep reformat in the computer once in a while - and then format in the camera (which is probably superfluous on a clean card   )

[davidmknoble]

59 minutes ago, Gerbs said:

The card I got is a SanDisk Extreme PRO SDXC UHS-II 64 GB

I have used the same card in my M10M since February and not had any problems or ever gotten locked up.  I do not format my SD cards in camera for the M10, but use SD Formatter.  I ingest the images using Photo Mechanic 6, then add metadata and other things, deleting bad images and add them to lightroom.  Once I know the images are good, I format the card with SD Formatter, remove it and put it back in the camera.

SD memory, even if new, can have problems - not often, but it happens. If formatting the card (and do a deep format, not the simple quick format), does not help and a new battery does not help, I would consider that the firmware could have a problem.  I don’t know if there is a way to re-install the same firmware or not.

To reiterate, I have not had my M10-D or M10M lock up, ever.  I hope you get this sorted through, I did have that problem with the S2 and hated it.  Never comes at a good time.

Let us know how it works out.

[Gerbs]

39 minutes ago, davidmknoble said:

I have used the same card in my M10M since February and not had any problems or ever gotten locked up.  I do not format my SD cards in camera for the M10, but use SD Formatter.  I ingest the images using Photo Mechanic 6, then add metadata and other things, deleting bad images and add them to lightroom.  Once I know the images are good, I format the card with SD Formatter, remove it and put it back in the camera.

SD memory, even if new, can have problems - not often, but it happens. If formatting the card (and do a deep format, not the simple quick format), does not help and a new battery does not help, I would consider that the firmware could have a problem.  I don’t know if there is a way to re-install the same firmware or not.

To reiterate, I have not had my M10-D or M10M lock up, ever.  I hope you get this sorted through, I did have that problem with the S2 and hated it.  Never comes at a good time.

Let us know how it works out.

Thanks for the info and the good wishes, I will let the forum know how things go. I will order the same card, but UHS-I, tonight, but keep using the previous card until the problem repeats. For my future reference, my current count is 461, then the overwrite format with SD Formatter. Personally, I can't help but think it's a firmware issue with a brand new model and design, but then again this is my first Leica. I never thought I'd own one, but seeing the possibilities of the M10M, and just the other day discovering Piezography, I am in heaven on earth. And in Maine, there's lots of hiking trails to get out on. The only other variable I can add, at the moment, is that I have been deleting images from the card on a PC. I also suspect that if I turn off Live View while in Play, or Review, that might be contributory to the issue. Although I just tried simply that, and it didn't do anything. But it does seem like when the freeze has cropped up, I just did something a little differently than usual. But that's always been an after-the-fact impression and hard to quantify.

Thanks

[Jeff S]

Hope you make some nice Piezo prints. With a Monochrom, a sweet b/w workflow in the digital age. 

Years ago I had some lock-ups/freezes with a new M8.2.  I replaced the battery and the problem never resurfaced.  FWIW, I only reformat in camera after downloading files to a Mac, never delete in camera, and only use the RF on my Ms..

Jeff

 

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[davidmknoble]

1 hour ago, Gerbs said:

The only other variable I can add, at the moment, is that I have been deleting images from the card on a PC.

There has been issues in past digital M’s when deleting images on an SD card and continuing to use. For one thing, each DNG file is a different size. Writing the next image will try to fit in space which leads to fragmenting. I would recommend deleting as ingesting and then formatting to start over.  Welcome to Leica cameras, sorry you are having some trouble.  Also, a feature I use is to press up on the four way button when viewing which adds a star to the image. This carries to Lightroom so you can mark special images in camera.  That may help you instead of deleting?  

Edited April 18, 2020 by davidmknoble

[Gerbs]

6 minutes ago, davidmknoble said:

There has been issues in past digital M’s when deleting images on an SD card and continuing to use. For one thing, each DNG file is a different size. Writing the next image will try to fit in space which leads to fragmenting. I would recommend deleting as ingesting and then formatting to start over.  Welcome to Leica cameras, sorry you are having some trouble.  Also, a feature I use is to press up on the four way button when viewing which adds a star to the image. This carries to Lightroom so you can mark special images in camera.  That may help you instead of deleting?  

The M10 Monochrom is, to me, inspiring because it seems like a tool that can be used to get to the kind of perfection to which Ansel Adams worked. Figuring out a workflow is a fun challenge. I've ordered the tools to do a full calibration of my monitor, for example, and a mirrored external drive to store the massive files that will be generated. My original thought was that the SD card was the best place to do deleting and such, as they are relatively cheap if one goes bad. I'd rather do culling of images BEFORE putting them on my permanent storage, to help keep things less fragmented there. Your suggestion of adding the star is a good one, it might help me sort things more quickly. There might be some real value in not deleting, just letting images accumulate on the card, and then formatting to free up its storage.

It is a lot of fun letting my geek side free on figuring out best practices, and letting my artistic side out making photographic drawings (to somewhat quote Henri Cartier-Bresson, I think).

Thanks