Any actual reason to upgrade from M246?

[setuporg]

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So the 246 has an already ridiculous low-light ISO and low noise.  Many have noticed that Q2/SL2 noise increased at hight ISO.  Am not sure the same holds for M10M but if 24 MP is sufficient resolution, is there any reason to upgrade?  I have Edition 60 and enjoy the fat form factor, plus I have a bunch of fat, long-lasting batteries for them.  And I can make weird B&W movies, which I discovered by accident.:). Plus you have a C switch position, a bunch of buttons, etc.

[Jeff S]

Many discussions already comparing the Monochroms....here's one...

 

Jeff

[setuporg]

IIRC he sold the M246 for M10M so did not have both in hand...

[setuporg]

So far, the M246 advantages:

• better battery life
• easier to hold with Noctilux
• ISO is set via a button and scroll wheel, not the idiotic and failure-prone faux rewind lever
• video!  You can shoot vintage movie
• hardware switch for drive type

[Likaleica]

Resistance is futile.  

[setuporg]

3 minutes ago, Likaleica said:

Resistance is futile.  

S3 will be first.:)

[SrMi]

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M10M is my first Monochrom; therefore, I cannot compare. 
However, since I prefer M10 ergonomics to M240 (traded in for M10), I would have preferred M10M to M246 for the same reasons. If you do not care about increased resolution, somewhat better dynamic range, and better high ISO behavior, but prefer 240/246 ergonomics, then it does not make sense to switch to M10M.

[T25UFO]

Pros:

Quieter shutter.  Better viewfinder, easier to focus.  Nicer form factor (debatable).  Far better high ISO performance (not debatable).  Same battery if you have another M10 variant (obviously doesn't apply if you don't).  Easier to crop images with higher resolution sensor.  Unbelievably brilliant with 50mm APO lens.

Cons:

Motion blur (use auto ISO and 1/250th as slowest shutter speed so haven't noticed this).  Price (my bank balance has noticed this).  Poorer battery performance (always carry at least one spare).  Er . . . that's about it.

Other personal observations:

Can't afford a Noctilux so that doesn't count (probably couldn't focus it anyway).  Never shoot video on a rangefinder.  Prefer the new ISO wheel and haven't experienced any problems with this (M10-D and M10-M).

[setuporg]

My first Leica was the M10 (since added a few more Ms: M60, M-P, M246; and Q2, S Typ 007, and SL2), and its ISO lever decoupled once that required a trip to Wetzlar to repair.  It turns out a fairly frequent failure, easy to find by searching for "ISO stuck at X".  I don't know if they fixed that on subsequent M10's, such as P, D, and now M and then R.  My most loved Leica of all time is the Edition 60 (which I wanted since 2014 but could afford only later), which is the same form factor as 246 and so I have many fat batteries.  It's surprising just how much longer a battery lasts in the 246 vs M10.  In M60 it lasts forever as that's the original screenless digital camera (the first in the world), and there's no wifi or anything else that's inside the M10D.

I prefer the M60 ISO wheel on the back, then the M246 dedicated button and thumbwheel, to the rather awkward M10 lever.

Also my LHSA APO 50 performs as wonderfully on the 246 as on other Ms.:)

I actually would like to see a debate on high ISO as an above post indicated a single stop advantage negated by the need for higher shutter speed.

Edited April 2, 2020 by setuporg

[T25UFO]

3 hours ago, setuporg said:

My first Leica was the M10 (since added a few more Ms: M60, M-P, M246; and Q2, S Typ 007, and SL2), and its ISO lever decoupled once that required a trip to Wetzlar to repair.  It turns out a fairly frequent failure, easy to find by searching for "ISO stuck at X".  I don't know if they fixed that on subsequent M10's, such as P, D, and now M and then R.  My most loved Leica of all time is the Edition 60 (which I wanted since 2014 but could afford only later), which is the same form factor as 246 and so I have many fat batteries.  It's surprising just how much longer a battery lasts in the 246 vs M10.  In M60 it lasts forever as that's the original screenless digital camera (the first in the world), and there's no wifi or anything else that's inside the M10D.

I prefer the M60 ISO wheel on the back, then the M246 dedicated button and thumbwheel, to the rather awkward M10 lever.

Also my LHSA APO 50 performs as wonderfully on the 246 as on other Ms.:)

I actually would like to see a debate on high ISO as an above post indicated a single stop advantage negated by the need for higher shutter speed.

I'm with you on the M60.  I really wanted this camera but it was just too expensive for me.  I eventually bought little sister MD but sold that when I changed to the M10 - the main reason being the better viewfinder with ageing eyes!  But I really like the screen less camera so changed to the M10-D as soon as it was announced.  Tried the SL as well, but like many I found it too big and cumbersome.  Actually, it's not so big if you're used to DSLRs, but I am a long time M rangefinder user.

I agree the rear ISO dial (M60, MD) is better, but I guess Leica had to standardise.  We also see a common form factor with the three button layout (SL2, Q2, M10) although a lot of SL users prefer the original four unlabelled buttons.  Incidentally, my original MD also had an ISO problem - when set to 800 it actually defaulted to 6400.  All other ISO settings were fine.  Strange fault, but sent back to Wetzlar and was fixed under warranty.

I would love to have the LHSA 50mm APO but guess they're all sold now.  Might be worth more today than you paid for it 🙂

[SrMi]

3 hours ago, setuporg said:

My first Leica was the M10 (since added a few more Ms: M60, M-P, M246; and Q2, S Typ 007, and SL2), and its ISO lever decoupled once that required a trip to Wetzlar to repair.  It turns out a fairly frequent failure, easy to find by searching for "ISO stuck at X".  I don't know if they fixed that on subsequent M10's, such as P, D, and now M and then R.  My most loved Leica of all time is the Edition 60 (which I wanted since 2014 but could afford only later), which is the same form factor as 246 and so I have many fat batteries.  It's surprising just how much longer a battery lasts in the 246 vs M10.  In M60 it lasts forever as that's the original screenless digital camera (the first in the world), and there's no wifi or anything else that's inside the M10D.

I prefer the M60 ISO wheel on the back, then the M246 dedicated button and thumbwheel, to the rather awkward M10 lever.

Also my LHSA APO 50 performs as wonderfully on the 246 as on other Ms.:)

I actually would like to see a debate on high ISO as an above post indicated a single stop advantage negated by the need for higher shutter speed.

There is no need for higher shutter speeds, assuming the output size (e.g. print) is the same.

[dkmoore]

1 hour ago, SrMi said:

There is no need for higher shutter speeds, assuming the output size (e.g. print) is the same.

Agreed. The 250 speed thing is a myth. Someone mentioned it on here and more people ran with it. I haven’t noticed this as an issue at all. 

[Luke_Miller]

14 hours ago, SrMi said:

There is no need for higher shutter speeds, assuming the output size (e.g. print) is the same.

I agree as long as the M10M image is not  cropped.  If one uses the high resolution sensor for its increased cropping ability - shutter speed can come into the equation.

Edited April 3, 2020 by Luke_Miller

[SrMi]

4 hours ago, Luke_Miller said:

I agree as long as the M10M image is not  cropped.  If one uses the high resolution sensor for its increased cropping ability - shutter speed can come into the equation.

Comparing apples and apples, I would assume that you would crop the lower resolution output as well.

If you want to print/crop larger than the low resolution sensor allows, then yes, you need higher shutter speed. In that case a lower resolution output is not an option at all.

[setuporg]

Now I realize we M246 owners have the last Leica rangefinder that can do video.  Perhaps a great nudge to try some art film in B&W!  Apparently there's a stereo mike adapter from Leica!

https://www.provideocoalition.com/leica-monochrom-capture-videos-in-black-white/

[davidmknoble]

On 4/1/2020 at 6:23 PM, setuporg said:

So the 246 has an already ridiculous low-light ISO and low noise.  Many have noticed that Q2/SL2 noise increased at hight ISO.  Am not sure the same holds for M10M but if 24 MP is sufficient resolution, is there any reason to upgrade?  I have Edition 60 and enjoy the fat form factor, plus I have a bunch of fat, long-lasting batteries for them.  And I can make weird B&W movies, which I discovered by accident.:). Plus you have a C switch position, a bunch of buttons, etc.

You have answered your own question.  The M10M is slimmer, has skinny batteries, cannot take movies and has less buttons.

For me the requirements were different.  I shoot film MPs, so the M10 provided about the same sized body which is better in my hands.  I have the M10D so I do not want two battery chargers and I can share batteries.  

As a point of note, I use the M10D and turn off the auto-off.  I leave it on so that I can just press the shutter and take an image with no wake-up time.  I can use a battery for almost an entire 10-12 hour day walking around with that.  Not tried it yet with the M10M, Covid kind of hampered that. So, the M10D has no LCD which helps.  Just saying battery life is not bad in the M10 series.

I also don't shoot movies, so has not been a requirement for me.  For my low light work, I've found the M10M gives about 2 stops better performance (i.e., 2 stops higher ISO with equivalent images - The M246 I could get good images at ISO 12,500, the M10M at 50,000).

Just my opinions...