Good To Be Retired Posted January 13, 2020 Share #1 Posted January 13, 2020 Advertisement (gone after registration) I have owned an M8, an M9, and an M240 P. For whatever reason I became enchanted with the concept of medium format and sold out of Leica. Now that I've gotten that out of my system I'm thinking about another M240. I still have other systems for different uses, but while I had the Leicas I particularly enjoyed using them for foreign travel. We get to visit Europe or the UK on a fairly regular basis and the M240 with a 24 or 28, 50, and a 90 worked particularly well for me. Under immediate consideration is purchase of the body and one lens, a 50mm. For what I photograph I have no need of anything wider than f2, and would be perfectly satisfied with a max aperture of f4. I had previously owned the 50mm f/2 SUMMICRON-M with the collapsable hood. I found it entirely adequate for my purpose. Since I'm starting over again, and the primary purpose of this rig is travel, I'm wondering if I might save a bit of bulk with a copy of the collapsable ELMAR M 50mm f/2.8 E39 (the 1994 - 2007 version). I'm curious if anyone could comment on the relative performance of the two lenses and whether the SUMMICRON-M would actually provide any obvious IQ/sharpness improvement on normal computer viewing (not pixel peeping) and 11 x 14 printing viewed at normal distances. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 13, 2020 Posted January 13, 2020 Hi Good To Be Retired, Take a look here Opinions on two lenses. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
jaapv Posted January 13, 2020 Share #2 Posted January 13, 2020 The Elmar-M 50 is well-corrected and contrasty lens which will render excellent results, the "look" being a bit of a mix between vintage and modern. Very pleasing for general photography, I can wholeheartedly recommend it. Don't confuse it with the older Elmar 50 lenses. Those will work well, but I feel they don't match sensors as well as the Elmar-M. I prefer to use older M39 Elmar and M-mount Elmar 50 lenses on film. It can be collapsed into the M240, the only caveat being to take care to mount it in extended position. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted January 13, 2020 Share #3 Posted January 13, 2020 I have both lenses and much prefer the Elmar but it is a matter of tastes. Objectively, the Summicron has less vignetting and more resolution below f/5.6 but it has also more CA, more flare and more focus shift. For better performances in a tiny package i would recommend the Summarit 50/2.5 (no experience with the current 50/2.4) but it has less character than the Elmar. Now the latter is my favorite 50 in good light so i'm not 100% unbiased i suspect . 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted January 13, 2020 Share #4 Posted January 13, 2020 I meant the Elmar-M 50/2.8 (# 11831) of course. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 1 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/305317-opinions-on-two-lenses/?do=findComment&comment=3890809'>More sharing options...
UliWer Posted January 13, 2020 Share #5 Posted January 13, 2020 The most obvious difference between the Summicron-M and the Elmar-M is the rendering of colors. The results from the Elmar look more blue, it is called a „cold“ lens by some people, the Summicron is „warmer“, tending more to the reds. “Cold“ and „warm“ may be misleading descriptions if you regard „cold“ as uncomfortable. It depends on the subjects. The sensor of M cameras often shows an emphasis on the reds, so the „blue“ Elmar may „correct“ this better than the Summicron. In another situation the results from the Summicron may be more pleasant. Though after all the advice for the Summarit may be the most reasonable one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedaes Posted January 13, 2020 Share #6 Posted January 13, 2020 Agree the Elmar-M is a superb lens but they benefit from a CLA for smooth focus (the youngest is now 16 years old). Also consider the Summarit as a lightweight travel lens. At F5.6 (possibly f4) IMHO you will not see any difference between the three for the output you describe. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlaing Posted January 13, 2020 Share #7 Posted January 13, 2020 Advertisement (gone after registration) If you want to try a collapsible Summicron 50 I’ll be in Fort Worth next week. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted January 13, 2020 Share #8 Posted January 13, 2020 21 minutes ago, UliWer said: The most obvious difference between the Summicron-M and the Elmar-M is the rendering of colors. The results from the Elmar look more blue, it is called a „cold“ lens by some people, the Summicron is „warmer“, tending more to the reds. [...] I have this feeling with the original Elmar but not the Elmar-M i must say. I'm a raw shooter though so i may be wrong. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomB_tx Posted January 13, 2020 Share #9 Posted January 13, 2020 I have the Elmar-M, same Summicron, and Summarit 2.5. All give great results, but the Summarit is my favorite for handling. The Summarit generally controls flare very well, but like the Summicron can show “central veiling flare” with strong off-axis lighting. It seems a bit less susceptible than the Summicron, so if you had no problem with it the Summarit should be fine. I usually use the Summarit without a hood for smaller size. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted January 14, 2020 Share #10 Posted January 14, 2020 Looking at the OP's work, many of his images are very heavily processed with extreme contrast and saturation and blocked shadows that bleed into the mid tones and highlights. The processing precludes any consideration for lens 'rendering', imo, and as the OP seems to want less bulk to carry on his travels then the elmar-m 50mm f2.8 would seem to be an obvious choice. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stein K S Posted January 14, 2020 Share #11 Posted January 14, 2020 I have both. And while loving the concept of the Elmar-M (size, looks, short focus throw), I still struggle to really like its drawing/rendering. I just do not like its bokeh... whether it is much or little of it in a given picture... the bokeh is ¨bizzi¨ in a washy/wavy way that I find unpleasant. The lens is just as sharp and nice drawing in the sharp areas as the Cron, but overall the Cron leaves a cleaner total impression. However, I still tend to bring that little Elmar-M when on travel... very convenient (almost pocketable) and fast in use (due to short focus throw). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Good To Be Retired Posted January 14, 2020 Author Share #12 Posted January 14, 2020 Thank you gentlemen. You have helped me to decide that , for my personal use, the ELMAR M 50mm f/2.8 E39 will best serve. Thanx again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgk Posted January 14, 2020 Share #13 Posted January 14, 2020 Be aware that the Elmar-M can be subject to wear; more so in my experience that the earlier Elmars. So when buying one you should be in a position to check it and return it if there is play in the lens extension locking mechanism. I do not know why this is so but it may be built from aluminium rather than brass and this might be the cause if its handled roughly. I have had two, both with play, one of which felt quite reasonable but the other with noticeably more which I felt was excessive. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
a.noctilux Posted January 14, 2020 Share #14 Posted January 14, 2020 I've had and appreciated the Elmar-M 50mm for years as compact 50mm. Last year, I bought one Summarit-M 2.5/50mm just to discover the lens. The 2.5/50 is so compact and good results (better in my photos than my two Elmar-M 50 ) that I now don't have the Elmar-M anymore. The "hexagon light blobs" bothered me on those contre-jour photos from the Elmar-M 2.8/50 , strange because on my LTM Elmar 3.5/50 the aperture blades are round at all F stops. 2.5/50 has more aperture blades with rounder those "blobs" and almost as compact as collapsed Elmar but always ready to operate. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted January 14, 2020 Share #15 Posted January 14, 2020 23 minutes ago, Good To Be Retired said: Thank you gentlemen. You have helped me to decide that , for my personal use, the ELMAR M 50mm f/2.8 E39 will best serve. Well done. Latest copie since 2006 (3993***) like this one are 6-bit coded. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ko.Fe. Posted January 14, 2020 Share #16 Posted January 14, 2020 (edited) I'm one of those who reads OP and follows link in OP. I'm very sorry, but as person with technical image processing knowledge I have to make this conclusion: You are over-processing at the level then it doesn't matter which lens was in use. You are throwing out camera, lens colors and details with heavy over processing. So, it doesn't matter which lens you will choose. Nor it is really big difference on digital sensors, between modern Cron formula and up to date Elmar-M 50 2.8. Well, current Cron flare is bad. Sorry. Oh, If you never used collapsible lens, it might drives you nuts. Elmarit-M not really compact, especially then not collapsed, with filter and hood. It is long lens then. Best lens would be Summarit-M 35 2.5, but well, you already made decision. Edited January 14, 2020 by Ko.Fe. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted January 14, 2020 Share #17 Posted January 14, 2020 14 minutes ago, pgk said: Be aware that the Elmar-M can be subject to wear; more so in my experience that the earlier Elmars. So when buying one you should be in a position to check it and return it if there is play in the lens extension locking mechanism. I do not know why this is so but it may be built from aluminium rather than brass and this might be the cause if its handled roughly. I have had two, both with play, one of which felt quite reasonable but the other with noticeably more which I felt was excessive. My Elmar-M 50/2.8 copies from 1994 and 2006 look solid like a tank. More so than my Summarit 50/2.5 i must say. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted January 14, 2020 Share #18 Posted January 14, 2020 12 minutes ago, Ko.Fe. said: [...] Elmarit-M not really compact, especially then not collapsed, with filter and hood. It is long lens then. [...] In extended position, it is my most compact 50 besides the Summarit 50/2.5. Here with the Summicron 50/2 v4. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/305317-opinions-on-two-lenses/?do=findComment&comment=3891262'>More sharing options...
Good To Be Retired Posted January 14, 2020 Author Share #19 Posted January 14, 2020 18 minutes ago, Ko.Fe. said: I'm one of those who reads OP and follows link in OP. I'm very sorry, but as person with technical image processing knowledge I have to make this conclusion: An honest opinion presented in a civil manner. That's what the internet needs more of 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ko.Fe. Posted January 14, 2020 Share #20 Posted January 14, 2020 (edited) 33 minutes ago, lct said: In extended position, it is my most compact 50 besides the Summarit 50/2.5. Here with the Summicron 50/2 v4. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Looks so familiar Owned both. But I'm filter and hood user, as I already mentioned. Scan of inkjet print, image taken with Cron v4 on M-E: Same lens on M-E without over processing: But Elmarit-M 50 2.8 was running in circles around v4 Cron on bw darkroom prints. Both are awesome in color on digital, if it is not chopped by over-processing. I'm still holding to Cron v3, because of its true Leica colors on digital and because it is not as sterile as v4 on bw drakroom prints. Edited January 14, 2020 by Ko.Fe. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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