LBJ2 Posted December 26, 2019 Share #1 Posted December 26, 2019 Advertisement (gone after registration) Today I watched an interesting video "DPReview TV: Our 2020 Resolutions for every camera company" Chris suggested Leica might consider an M-Camera Rangefinder/EVF Hybrid that allowed for both Rangefinder and EVF. Calling it an engineering nightmare nonetheless. Ha Ha. What do you think? Are you interested in an all-in-one RF and EVF Leica M camera? Personally, I like the option to use the Visoflex 020 /EVF accessory on my Rangefinder M10 or not. I would prefer a high quality SL2 like removable Visoflex no matter the size instead of Leica upsetting the svelte M10 form factor. What do you think? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted December 26, 2019 Posted December 26, 2019 Hi LBJ2, Take a look here M Camera Hybrid RF/EVF?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
jdlaing Posted December 26, 2019 Share #2 Posted December 26, 2019 An SL2 evf would be as big as a frankenfinder. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted December 26, 2019 Share #3 Posted December 26, 2019 Incorporating a hybrid finder would not be possible without altering the M dimensions according to Leica. See https://tinyurl.com/yy75dltp. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmradman Posted December 26, 2019 Share #4 Posted December 26, 2019 (edited) Hybrid not sure but pure EVF probably,, comparing M10 and CL gives us some insights what is possible. The CL sensor is APS but the lens mount is wide for full frame L optics and M lenses are smaller in diameter than L lenses. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Edited December 26, 2019 by mmradman 1 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/304772-m-camera-hybrid-rfevf/?do=findComment&comment=3880103'>More sharing options...
LBJ2 Posted December 26, 2019 Author Share #5 Posted December 26, 2019 (edited) 12 minutes ago, mmradman said: Hybrid not sure but pure EVF probably,, comparing M10 and CL gives us some insights what is possible. The CL sensor is APS but the lens mount is wide for full frame L optics and M lenses are smaller in diameter than L lenses. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Interesting comparison. I am almost certain thanks to internet lore, Leica is up to something EVF/RF wise for the next generation M camera. I'm also familiar with the Leica M10 design interview where the frankenfinder vs Visoflex 020 size for the M10 was referenced. But then I saw the recent Sony A7rIV Kolari teardown and the Sony's 5.76M dot OLED viewfinder just doesn't look that big https://kolarivision.com/the-sony-a7r-iv-disassembly-and-teardown/ so maybe you are on to something with the CL reference. Edited December 26, 2019 by LBJ2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LBJ2 Posted December 27, 2019 Author Share #6 Posted December 27, 2019 44 minutes ago, jdlaing said: An SL2 evf would be as big as a frankenfinder. What is the frankenfinder exactly? I googled frankenfinder and found "Originally conceived as an accessory finder for the 16-18-21mm Tri-Elmar," Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/304772-m-camera-hybrid-rfevf/?do=findComment&comment=3880117'>More sharing options...
mmradman Posted December 27, 2019 Share #7 Posted December 27, 2019 Advertisement (gone after registration) 3 minutes ago, LBJ2 said: What is the frankenfinder exactly? I googled frankenfinder and found "Originally conceived as an accessory finder for the 16-18-21mm Tri-Elmar," Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Correct. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
setuporg Posted December 27, 2019 Share #8 Posted December 27, 2019 This has been beaten to death, see the previous enormous threads... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted December 27, 2019 Share #9 Posted December 27, 2019 And the only conclusion: It will come if it comes... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrozenInTime Posted December 27, 2019 Share #10 Posted December 27, 2019 10 hours ago, jaapv said: And the only conclusion: It will come if it comes... Every so often, It is necessary to remind Santa what you might like 🙂 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Prime Posted December 27, 2019 Share #11 Posted December 27, 2019 speaking as a grey beard, some kind of in-finder focus assist will extend the Leica-life for older people with deteriorating eye sight. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dugby Posted December 28, 2019 Share #12 Posted December 28, 2019 (edited) In 2013, a friend had a Fujifilm X100S or X100T which I tried. It had a wonderful hybrid OVF/EVF and I have often wondered when Leica might implement something similar. Leica and Fujifilm have a long history of coopertition.... recall in 2001 the Leica Digilux 4.3 and Fujifilm Finepix 4700, I was hoping Leica might rekindle that relationship. (I still have my Finepix 6800 in storage) Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Edited December 28, 2019 by dugby 1 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/304772-m-camera-hybrid-rfevf/?do=findComment&comment=3880740'>More sharing options...
david strachan Posted December 28, 2019 Share #13 Posted December 28, 2019 30 minutes ago, dugby said: It had a wonderful hybrid OVF/EVF and I have often wondered when Leica might implement something similar... Hi dugby A lot have had similar hopes and many discussions. It would allow more accurate focusing if the rangefinder is off, or if there is back-focusing, etc. And of course would also allow other lens brands and macro, etc. But it's just not going to happen with Leica...it's either, or, not both. And will loose customers as the brand ages. ... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick in CO Posted December 28, 2019 Share #14 Posted December 28, 2019 I would like to see the Leica EVF in a new version, with the latest hi-res specs of the SL2, dropping the troublesome GPS feature and allowing use on the current M10 and TL2. The Frankenfinder size would be fine if more compact to the top of the camera body, not sticking out so much to snag on things. I am not impressed with the hybrid finder of the Gargantua X-Pro2/3. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted December 29, 2019 Share #15 Posted December 29, 2019 The bottom line is that an EVF does not have zero volume. And the Leica M RF does not have zero volume. Putting both in one camera as a hybrid would increase the size. Keep in mind that the Fuji X-Pro does not include a classic mechanical-optical rangerfinder - it would suffer the same size increase as a Leica M to make its finder truly hybrid (and rationally functional for manual focusing). Watching the video provides me with a new adage: "The only thing funnier (yet sadder) than videos of dogs trying to chew toffee is videos of photographers trying to engineer cameras." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RrRkw0U3-0M 2 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LBJ2 Posted December 29, 2019 Author Share #16 Posted December 29, 2019 (edited) 17 hours ago, adan said: The bottom line is that an EVF does not have zero volume. And the Leica M RF does not have zero volume. Putting both in one camera as a hybrid would increase the size. Keep in mind that the Fuji X-Pro does not include a classic mechanical-optical rangerfinder - it would suffer the same size increase as a Leica M to make its finder truly hybrid (and rationally functional for manual focusing). Watching the video provides me with a new adage: "The only thing funnier (yet sadder) than videos of dogs trying to chew toffee is videos of photographers trying to engineer cameras." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RrRkw0U3-0M Edited December 29, 2019 by LBJ2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ko.Fe. Posted December 30, 2019 Share #17 Posted December 30, 2019 DPR? The only credibility they have is consistent cameras reviews. Sure they need evf in every camera, it is great for test shots. But Leica is in use for something different. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin B Posted December 30, 2019 Share #18 Posted December 30, 2019 I see it from a different angle regarding the above comments. Why not making two future M versions, one just with traditional rangefinder and higher resolution FF sensor (likely in M11) and another one combining rangefinder and EVF as suggested (even if this means a slight increase in camera size). Both for different price tags of course. Two birds hit with one stone - the standard M11 without EVF would become more price-competitive hopefully with similar MLC models on the market whereas the hybrid viewfinder version could take the spot as more expensive "luxury" model. Collectors could rave for the latter whereas the then more attractive M11 would attract more actual camera users due to the lower price tag. Win-win! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LBJ2 Posted December 30, 2019 Author Share #19 Posted December 30, 2019 3 hours ago, Martin B said: I see it from a different angle regarding the above comments. Why not making two future M versions, one just with traditional rangefinder and higher resolution FF sensor (likely in M11) and another one combining rangefinder and EVF as suggested (even if this means a slight increase in camera size). Both for different price tags of course. Two birds hit with one stone - the standard M11 without EVF would become more price-competitive hopefully with similar MLC models on the market whereas the hybrid viewfinder version could take the spot as more expensive "luxury" model. Collectors could rave for the latter whereas the then more attractive M11 would attract more actual camera users due to the lower price tag. Win-win! "Jesko, the product manager for the M suggested that, of course, the electronic viewfinder is a nice addition for the M camera, however, they always see the rangefinder as the number one focusing system for the M. They mentioned Leica did build a prototype hybrid built in EVF M, but they put priority on the camera body design, as it made it too thick. However, Stefan Daniel added to this, emphasizing there will always be a rangefinder version. However, they are looking at opportunities to have a second model with a built in EVF. They will never swap the rangefinder to EVF, but a second version alongside the rangefinder is very possible in the future." https://leicarumors.com/2019/01/08/very-interesting-hints-about-future-leica-products.aspx/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
84bravo Posted December 30, 2019 Share #20 Posted December 30, 2019 I use digital M cameras for the optical rangefinder. I'll reserve judgement about an M with an EVF until I see it, but my opinion right now is that there are a lot of excellent EVF cameras out there right now that are a lot less expensive than Leica. There are no good alternatives to the Leica M rangefinder/optical viewfinder. I'm in the minority of Leica users in that I'm a professional photographer. I use a lot of different camera brands depending on the tool needed for the job. I use Canon DSLRs for pro sports and lighting. It's a fine system. Nikon is just as good. When it comes to pro mirrorless systems today, Sony is leading the pack. I can see myself eventually moving to Sony from Canon for sports, etc. I'm sure the SL system is good, but the cost/return is jut not there for the pro user. The Leica M is a niche product that fits it's market well and has no real competition. It would be a marketing mistake to try to compete with all of the mirrorless EVF systems out there now IMHO. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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