Leica Fotos (Pro) {merged}

[trisberg]

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Where do you find the iPad version? Is that only available in EU? I'm in the US and nothing shows for "Leica FOTOS for iPad", all I see is the regular phone app v2.0.1. I signed up for the Pro trial, but if I can't even install the app it seems kind of pointless.

-Thomas

[Chuck Albertson]

1 hour ago, trisberg said:

Where do you find the iPad version? Is that only available in EU? I'm in the US and nothing shows for "Leica FOTOS for iPad", all I see is the regular phone app v2.0.1. I signed up for the Pro trial, but if I can't even install the app it seems kind of pointless.

-Thomas

I suspect you have to sign up for the Pro version to get the iPad app. The Overview page on the Leica website phrases it thus:

"Supporting a variety of mobile devices, including iPad*,"

"*the Pro version of Leica FOTOS, including the iPad version, is subject to a fee." (Italics in original.)

I just downloaded to my iPad an update (2.0.1) to FOTOS 2.0 that updates some "FOTOS 2.0 screenshots," and activated the 7-day trial, but it still acts like an iPhone app.

[danielmfrank]

11 hours ago, Mogoforest said:

I am not familiar with German law, but here in the UK, Leica have left themselves potentially open to prosecution for misrepresentation.

Both the on-line and paper Q2 manuals state unequivocally (page 126):

RECORDING THE IMAGE LOCATION WITH GPS (ONLY IN CONNECTION WITH THE LEICA FOTOS APP)

The GPS (global positioning system) allows the pinpointing of a receiver anywhere in the world. The GPS function is activated automatically when a connection to the Leica FOTOS app is active. The camera will then continuously receive the current GPS data (latitude and longitude, elevation above sea level) and writes this information into the Exif data of the images.

This may not be a very important point to some Leica users, but it is to me. Leica make fabulous cameras, but are about to undo all their good work with their inept management of both software and marketing.

This is the part that disappoints me the most. I had a dialogue on Medium with Nico Kohler of Leica back in September. I asked specifically about the GPS support, pointing out that it was promised almost a year earlier in the Q2 announcement, and here was his answer:

Quote

We are working intensively on a more advanced way of location logging via Bluetooth in the background. In order to deliver an excellent user experience, it will take longer. Unfortunately, we cannot provide you with a concrete date yet.

So meanwhile, they put all their development resources into delivering a $50/year iPad app with a mediocre user experience.

At this point, as far as I am concerned, the Q2 advertising and manuals are outright deceptive, and there seems no sense of urgency at Leica to keep this promise to their customers. Like an earlier poster, I do a lot of travel photography, and the GPS feature was in the first rank of things that sold me on the Q2.

Here is a link to Herr Kohler's latest Medium post, on Leica fotos 2.0:

https://medium.com/@koehler.nico/leica-fotos-2-0-pro-ipad-2a12265fd29a

I left a comment on this one expressing my disappointment, and would encourage readers of this forum to do so as well, as it appears that he does read and sometimes respond to the comments.

[trisberg]

57 minutes ago, Chuck Albertson said:

I just downloaded to my iPad an update (2.0.1) to FOTOS 2.0 that updates some "FOTOS 2.0 screenshots," and activated the 7-day trial, but it still acts like an iPhone app.

Yep, same here, no sign of something specific for an iPad although the marketing mentions an iPad version.

-Thomas

[Chuck Albertson]

2 hours ago, trisberg said:

Where do you find the iPad version? Is that only available in EU? I'm in the US and nothing shows for "Leica FOTOS for iPad", all I see is the regular phone app v2.0.1. I signed up for the Pro trial, but if I can't even install the app it seems kind of pointless.

-Thomas

Perhaps as a consequence of activating the 7-day trial, I searched for and found the "Fotos for iPad" app in the App Store. It runs better than the iPhone app on my last-year iPad, and downloads DNGs a bit faster (though nothing like shooting tethered). If you switch to Remote, as Scott noted it still defaults to P shooting mode and face detection AF. On the plus side, I can operate both still and video shooting on my SL via remote (but will not download video clips, only stills); Remote displays the SL2 UI, so you can switch between video and still operation by touch.

Edited November 24, 2019 by Chuck Albertson

[trisberg]

Looks like you have to run iPadOS 13 to be able to find an install "Leica FOTOS for iPad". I just upgraded from iOS 12 to iPadOS 13 and it does show up in App Store after the upgrade.

-Thomas

[trisberg]

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So, if I connect the app to my camera, I can download images and click on the "Lr" button to edit them in Lightroom CC at which point Lightroom wants to connect to the Adobe Cloud, which it can't because the WiFi is connected to the camera. Doesn't seem to be the easiest way to import your photos to Lightroom CC, think I'll use a card reader instead.

-Thomas

[humerc]

I will just order the USB-C to SD-Card Reader from Apple for my iPad Pro. Cost one-time 45€ and is much more faster than the Leica APP. In December there should be an update to the Lightroom APP that allows direct import into their ecosystem (without the hassle to import it first to the iPad Camera roll), so it should be a decent workflow. I will only use the Leica APP to change settings on my M10-D, but that doesn't happen very often. 

Nonetheless - I am really upset about the behavior of Leica in this case - I probably wouldn't mind if they increase their camera prices about 100€/year, but in this case it is just too obvious that they want to rip their customers off...

Edited November 24, 2019 by humerc

[snooper]

3 hours ago, humerc said:

I will just order the USB-C to SD-Card Reader from Apple for my iPad Pro. Cost one-time 45€ and is much more faster than the Leica APP. In December there should be an update to the Lightroom APP that allows direct import into their ecosystem (without the hassle to import it first to the iPad Camera roll)

It actually does it today. Just click on "add photos" and then choose the USB drive in "Locations" and you can import into LR CC any DNG or other formats.

I still don't get the idea behind this, as you'll need to import them anyway in your "normal" Lightroom, unless one could work only with an iPad ?

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[rnl]

I received a response to my email to Leica asking about the cost of the "pro" version.  The initial response was that Leica provided access to Adobe Lightroom and that Adobe did not provide that service free to Leica.  Seems to me that instead of bearing the cost of developing software Leica merely outsourced that task to Adobe and shifted the cost of development to their customers.

[snooper]

Well technically Fotos just invoke LR CC preparing a pipe with files to be imported by LR. There is no integration at all of LR CC in Fotos, despite what Leica is broadcasting. LR CC does not come for free when called from Fotos, and you need a subscription with Adobe, with or without Fotos. There is no difference in the Adobe subscription with or without using Fotos to designate which file are to be imported in LR CC.

Furthermore, LR CC works fine as a standalone product for every single Leica Camera without the need to add Fotos. The Leica app is actually making the import from Q2 or SL2 more complicated, and much more time consuming : 35 seconds per DNG file with Fotos (SL2 / Q2), 7 seconds with a direct import on the same iPad Pro with a $9,99 card reader.

Sorry Leica, nice try, but your customers do know about the value of money, and you'll know now for a fact it's not that easy to steal $50 from their pockets. 😎

We - nevertheless - love you.

[FrozenInTime]

Downloaded on ipad and immediately deleted.

 

[iRandom]

Did a quick test on an iPhone. Establishing the connection is still painfully slow. Displaying the previews is now tolerable and it also seems like it prioritizes the previews from the section of the list I am viewing. I don't recall it doing that before. Downloading a 46MP DNG took 35 seconds. The downloaded photo(s) is automatically saved into Photos on my iPhone and subsequently synced via iCloud Photos to my iMac. I then airdropped the DNG from within the Fotos app to my iMac which I noted is 10x faster than the initial download. I confirmed that the airdropped file and the file in Photos is a DNG. I didn't try the LR link since I'm in the process of moving away from Adobe.

So, it looks like 2.0 may have given me a little bit of a speedup for thumbnail viewing and thankfully I didn't seem to lose any functionality aside from the promised GPS. I won't be starting the free trial since I'd never pay $70 a year for this app or for any iPhone or iPad add for that matter.

One tip I learned is to not both download and share from the camera connection screen since sharing will always download even if you already downloaded. I doubt I'll actually share from Fotos, aside from this experiment, since I'll probably want to tweak in Photos and then share from there.

[Exodies]

8 hours ago, snooper said:

It actually does it today. Just click on "add photos" and then choose the USB drive in "Locations" and you can import into LR CC any DNG or other formats.

I still don't get the idea behind this, as you'll need to import them anyway in your "normal" Lightroom, unless one could work only with an iPad ?

 

If by normal Lightroom you mean Lightroom classic with your photos stored on your discs - you can configure it to automatically download all pictures from the cloud and include them in your catalogue and local storage. Happens unobtrusively in the background.

[MarkP]

I’ve not yet downloaded the new Fotos. To me it’s ONLY use was to mount the iPhone with the camera on a tripod as a larger screen to work off. I have no interest in trying to manipulate or transfer files on it.

However the original did not display the histogram so I still had to resort to the camera EVF or rear screen - sort of defeated the purpose of it for me.
 
Does the new version display a real-time histogram?

Edited November 24, 2019 by MarkP

[danielmfrank]

I called and talked to the SF Leica Store today. The guy I talked to hadn't heard anything about the Leica fotos iPad app or the $50 annual charge. I spent a few minutes going over the features and the price with him, and he kept quizzing me about the features, seemingly unable to believe I hadn't left something out. He was very polite about it, and promised to talk to the Leica rep the next time he calls. He did say that our feedback might be more useful than his, particularly on any forum read by someone from Leica, such as the Medium account I linked to above.

I emphasized several times that I came to him as someone committed to Leica products and to the brand, and that he should think of this more as an intervention than as a complaint.

I'm planning to attend the SL2 event at the store next week, and will probably mention the issue again.

[snooper]

2 hours ago, danielmfrank said:

...particularly on any forum read by someone from Leica, such as the Medium account I linked to above.

 

Thanks for posting that link to Medium.

I was really puzzled reading this article, because they wrote strange stuff. No, Fotos Pro is not twice faster than the previous - already useless - version of the iPhone app.

But furthermore, there is one detail that really pisses me off: they claim that having usage of a DNG file of the picture you just made with your Leica is a "pro" feature.

Quote

With the all new Leica FOTOS Pro subscription, customers will at the same time receive pro level features like raw support and video recording as well as Leica FOTOS for iPad.

So raw support is something so "pro level" that we shall pay for it? While we could demonstrate that LR CC does not need Fotos 2.0 to handle 5 times faster any DNG file out of a SL2 on an iPad Pro?

Last, but not least, look at the screenshot they published with the SL2. You'll see geotagging in the file infos (the Empire State Building actually). Did anyone got it working with the SL2 ?

 

 

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Edited November 27, 2019 by snooper

[LocalHero1953]

18 minutes ago, snooper said:

Thanks for posting that link to Medium.

I was really puzzled reading this article, because they wrote strange stuff. No, Fotos Pro is not twice faster than the previous - already useless - version of the iPhone app.

But furthermore, there is one detail that really pisses me off: they claim that having usage of a DNG file of the picture you just made with your Leica is a "pro" feature.

So raw support is something so "pro level" that we shall pay for it? While we could demonstrate that LR CC does not need Fotos 2.0 to handle 5 times faster any DNG file out of a SL2 on an iPad Pro?

Last, but not least, look at the screenshot they published with the SL2. You'll see geotagging in the file infos (the Empire State Building actually). Did anyone got it working with the SL2 ?

 

 

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

So far, in the android version of Fotos, without having signed up to the Pro version (and I will not be paying for it either), I can use Fotos to download DNGs, and I can share them from the app to Lightroom, for which I have a separate subscription. So their marketing material is wrong (or this functionality will be disabled after some trial period that I'm not aware I'm in). The subscription Pro version thus has little extra benefit, except possibly to ipad users.

[danielmfrank]

23 hours ago, snooper said:

Last, but not least, look at the screenshot they published with the SL2. You'll see geotagging in the file infos (the Empire State Building actually). Did anyone got it working with the SL2 ?

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Geotagging works when you are using the app as a full remote control for the camera, over WiFi. I suspect they geotag the file when they capture it in the app.

When you are in full remote control mode, all the camera controls are disabled, turning your Leica into nothing more than a remote head for the phone. It's basically a brick with a lens. So if you didn't spend all that extra money on a Leica for the elegant user interface and controls, you're all set.

Nothing says "pro" like a $5000 iPhone camera.

Edited November 28, 2019 by danielmfrank

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[Coppereye1960]

On 11/21/2019 at 7:59 AM, rjj said:

there's no MacOS version either yet. I personally think that's a rich price and a poor choice by Leica.

This has really frustrated me - it might be because the link to iPad Pro is irritating ( to say the least ).  
 

If the free option doesn’t allow DNG access, what’s the point you might as well, as many have said, take the card out and load it into the RAW processor of your choice.  Also I don’t use LR I prefer Capture One Pro so any deeper links with LR especially if it’s in the paid for Pro version is pointless for me