leica sl2 Leica SL2 AF

[FlashGordonPhotography]

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13 hours ago, meerec said:

bigger = better as always 😂😬 so I may cancel my order, glad I haven’t sold my SL yet @FlashGordonPhotography ... and, the GPS, bring it back!!!

It's not a big difference. If you're at tomorrows launch you can get a feel for how you like/dislike it. Personally, except fo the rear button layout I prefer the SL2 in every way.

Gordon 

[jyrkialanen]

On 11/24/2019 at 4:18 PM, sillbeers15 said:

I am showing the 11 frames shot with successfully AFC/Tracking locked-on with Bird in flight as motion subject to test the SL2's AF capability based on camera autofucus settings (6fps Continuous Drive Medium and P mode with Auto ISO settings on camera):

AFC/Tracking/AF profile:Wildlife/single point AF.

Out of the 11 shots from L10000209 to L10000219, frame L10000214 was delivered with 'soft' focused picture.

You be the critic to determine if the SL2's AF tracking is junk like said by a few YouTube reviewers?

Or is it acceptable AF tracking capability based on your expectations?

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SL2AFtracking-L1000209 by sillbeers15

SL2AFtracking-L1000210 by sillbeers15

SL2AFtracking-L1000211 by sillbeers15

SL2AFtracking-L1000212 by sillbeers15

SL2AFtracking-L1000213 by sillbeers15

SL2AFtracking-L1000214 by sillbeers15

SL2AFtracking-L1000215 by sillbeers15

SL2AFtracking-L1000216 by sillbeers15

SL2AFtracking-L1000217 by sillbeers15

SL2AFtracking-L1000218 by sillbeers15

SL2AFtracking-L1000219 by sillbeers15

Well it depends of one's expectations of course, but neither of those series are especially demanding to autofocus tracking system. At the first four pictures the distance between the camera and the bird doesn't change between the photos. At the final five photos the distance changes but the bird is so far away from the camera that  the possible tracking errors will be hidden because of the relatively large dof. Nice photos of course, but doesn't imo tell very much of SL2:s tracking capabilities...

[caissa]

32 minutes ago, jyrkialanen said:

Well it depends of one's expectations of course, but neither of those series are especially demanding to autofocus tracking system. At the first four pictures the distance between the camera and the bird doesn't change between the photos. At the final five photos the distance changes but the bird is so far away from the camera that  the possible tracking errors will be hidden because of the relatively large dof. Nice photos of course, but doesn't imo tell very much of SL2:s tracking capabilities...

He said he wanted to know if the SL2s tracking AF is junk. And he clearly showed that it isn't.  At least to me this is clear. So he clearly achieved his goal.
So, imo, if you would like to add anything useful (more than just a few discouraging words  ), please do your own (in depth) tests and show your results here .....
I am looking forward to it ....   (with enthusiasm   )

Edited November 27, 2019 by caissa

[hotshew]

On 11/9/2019 at 6:15 AM, NRKstudio said:

Coming from a new Sony, I’m hoping it will be comparable.

I wouldn't get your hopes up too much. I've shot 7R4, A9 (v1), and SL2, and SL2 is not comparable for fast action or in your scenario. In my experience, DSLR (D5, 850, 1DXii, etc.) and the newer Sony mirrorlesses (7v4, A9) are the way to go for high keeper rates in these cases.

[sillbeers15]

6 hours ago, hotshew said:

I wouldn't get your hopes up too much. I've shot 7R4, A9 (v1), and SL2, and SL2 is not comparable for fast action or in your scenario. In my experience, DSLR (D5, 850, 1DXii, etc.) and the newer Sony mirrorlesses (7v4, A9) are the way to go for high keeper rates in these cases.

Please be more specific on ‘high keeper rates’. You mean you get 100% keeper rates and you do not commit any user error at all?

Taking pics from my iPhone gets better keeper rate than your Sony & DSLRs,...does that means it is the ‘way to go’?

Edited November 30, 2019 by sillbeers15

[NRKstudio]

On 11/29/2019 at 12:45 PM, hotshew said:

I wouldn't get your hopes up too much. I've shot 7R4, A9 (v1), and SL2, and SL2 is not comparable for fast action or in your scenario. In my experience, DSLR (D5, 850, 1DXii, etc.) and the newer Sony mirrorlesses (7v4, A9) are the way to go for high keeper rates in these cases.

So the main issue I have is that the face defect does not work very well (more often than not, it fails to pick up a face).  This conclusion is after taking about 1200 shots of people at Thanksgiving and around my home over the last week or so (from daytime well lit outdoors shots and also inside in the evening with medium light at 3200 to 6400 iso, 1/50 SS, f/2).  The face/body detection will however usually detect a body. 
 

so the face defect is not really anywhere as effective as the last couple generations of Sony (7r3 or 7r4).  That’s disappointing to me as I don’t believe it’s a PDAF vs CDAF issue, but rather a software AF deficiency.  
 

i can only hope that Leica will update its face/body detect in a firmware update to either be more effective or else work as eye-AF (not face-AF).  Panasonic upgraded their face defect in a firmware update (within a few months of S1r release) and it was a very significant improvement apparently.  Nikon must have worked like hell over 2-3 months and upgraded their eye-AF to compete with Sony.  Their firmware update (from my usage) was a huge improvement for their eye-AF.  Will Leica expend the resources to do so, or is it even possible with their staff? I only wish their AF Software was just a small fraction as good as the sheer technological superiority of their SL Summicron lenses.  
 

either way, I’m not going back to Sony!  The IQ is worth it and I have to say it’s prob due in large part to the 50 and 35 APO sl.  
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[NRKstudio]

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Just to clarify, I meant face detect af, my autocorrect is quite aggressive 

[alywit]

6 hours ago, NRKstudio said:

 

i can only hope that Leica will update its face/body detect in a firmware update to either be more effective or else work as eye-AF (not face-AF).

So in the meantime (I’m a noob Leica owner) which auto focus setting are you going to rely on instead for those situations?

[NRKstudio]

2 hours ago, alywit said:

So in the meantime (I’m a noob Leica owner) which auto focus setting are you going to rely on instead for those situations?

Try the tracking setting, and click on the option for return AF point to the center (after you take a photo).  So for this: you can 1. align the center tracking AF box on your subject person, 2. half press the shutter to lock the tracking box onto that person,  3. recompose your angle/frame, then 4. make the shot.  
You will probably have to try once or twice to make the tracking box lock onto your subject (it’ll turn green when it’s locked), especially indoors in medium light.  When you click option to return tracking box to center, it’ll help because: 1.  It’s easier to recompose when you start with the subject in the middle of the frame instead of off-center; and, 2. the highest chance of success for the lens/camera to calculate contrast and focus, and thus AF lock onto the subject at the center of the frame as most lens’ sharpest/highest contrast point is at center frame.  

[sillbeers15]

8 hours ago, NRKstudio said:

So the main issue I have is that the face defect does not work very well (more often than not, it fails to pick up a face).  This conclusion is after taking about 1200 shots of people at Thanksgiving and around my home over the last week or so (from daytime well lit outdoors shots and also inside in the evening with medium light at 3200 to 6400 iso, 1/50 SS, f/2).  The face/body detection will however usually detect a body. 
 

so the face defect is not really anywhere as effective as the last couple generations of Sony (7r3 or 7r4).  That’s disappointing to me as I don’t believe it’s a PDAF vs CDAF issue, but rather a software AF deficiency.  
 

i can only hope that Leica will update its face/body detect in a firmware update to either be more effective or else work as eye-AF (not face-AF).  Panasonic upgraded their face defect in a firmware update (within a few months of S1r release) and it was a very significant improvement apparently.  Nikon must have worked like hell over 2-3 months and upgraded their eye-AF to compete with Sony.  Their firmware update (from my usage) was a huge improvement for their eye-AF.  Will Leica expend the resources to do so, or is it even possible with their staff? I only wish their AF Software was just a small fraction as good as the sheer technological superiority of their SL Summicron lenses.  
 

either way, I’m not going back to Sony!  The IQ is worth it and I have to say it’s prob due in large part to the 50 and 35 APO sl.  
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I have yet try out the face detection AF on my SL2. But I have shot it using my previous SL for portraits and I had good hit rate.

Can you share more information as in which lens were you using? Was the subject small in comparison to the frame? Were you only encountering non sharply focused eye of your subject? Were your subjects moving quickly? Did you select iAF/AFS/AFC?

Leica only shows the subject face being boxed but not on the eye of the subject. But the fact that it is face detect means the algorithms could identify the position of the eyes for focusing. 

 

[alywit]

13 hours ago, NRKstudio said:

Try the tracking setting, and click on the option for return AF point to the center (after you take a photo).  So for this: you can 1. align the center tracking AF box on your subject person, 2. half press the shutter to lock the tracking box onto that person,  3. recompose your angle/frame, then 4. make the shot.  

So I have my SL2 in AFc /spot metering mode, center resetting after a shot, and I depress the shutter halfway, tracking cross turns green successfully, however while keeping the half press I go to recompose and it continues to change focus and adapt not keeping the spot I focused on. What am I doing incorrectly, or what setting have I not properly configured?

[alywit]

14 minutes ago, alywit said:

So I have my SL2 in AFc /spot metering mode, center resetting after a shot, and I depress the shutter halfway, tracking cross turns green successfully, however while keeping the half press I go to recompose and it continues to change focus and adapt not keeping the spot I focused on. What am I doing incorrectly, or what setting have I not properly configured?

I shouldn't be in continuous mode, in AFs it works fine, sorry to bother you.

Edited December 4, 2019 by alywit

[sillbeers15]

30 minutes ago, alywit said:

So I have my SL2 in AFc /spot metering mode, center resetting after a shot, and I depress the shutter halfway, tracking cross turns green successfully, however while keeping the half press I go to recompose and it continues to change focus and adapt not keeping the spot I focused on. What am I doing incorrectly, or what setting have I not properly configured?

Did you plan to track focus on your subject when it starts to move? If so, you can recompose your frame after the AFC box turns green. But you got to move your frame gently to ensure the green box still stays on your subject. When your subject is too small against the frame, you will tend to loose your subject with green box easily.

Tracking focus can be tricky. You need to practice. Even keeping the moving subject within the frame can be a challenge to beginners, not to say you need to keep the green box nailed to your moving subject with a telephoto or tele zoom more than 200mm in focal length.

[NRKstudio]

1 hour ago, alywit said:

I shouldn't be in continuous mode, in AFs it works fine, sorry to bother you.

Not a bother, I’m only a year and a half into photography and my first real camera (Leica m10-p). 
 

Make sure you set the AF mode to “tracking”.  AF-C is the type of autofocus, out of the choices AF-C, AF-S, and iAF (and MF which is manual focus)..  do make sure you are on AF-C (af continuous, which is what you should use for people most of the time).  

So to follow the method I described:  The AF modes are like spot, center, tracking, face/body detect, field, etc.   This will be in one of the “focus settings” menus on page 2 or 3.  Make sure you click “tracking” (or subject tracking it may be called).

[NRKstudio]

I always use AF-C as I’m taking candid pics of my toddler and/or wife, and they are often moving a little here or there when I’m taking a candid shot, so AF-C and tracking together will make sure you capture the person/subject properly, regardless of their small movement that may happen when you recompose.   

[sillbeers15]

On 11/26/2019 at 1:30 PM, FlashGordonPhotography said:

Sharpness? The same.

The SL and SL2 viewfinders are different. The SL2 is better overall but the SL is a bit bigger (more magnification). I don't know which I prefer.

The SL2’s EVF playback on magnification view is crispy sharp while the SL’s shows a soft and grainy image. Useless in determining AF accuracy.

[Donzo98]

3 hours ago, sillbeers15 said:

The SL2’s EVF playback on magnification view is crispy sharp while the SL’s shows a soft and grainy image. Useless in determining AF accuracy.

This is what I have been saying... and everyone attacked me... and said I was crazy.

[digitalfx]

There is no question the LCD looks better...but if you have all the offending settings turned off (Pre-Focus, AFi) the EVF looks good. I still don't think it looks better than the SL, but since thats based on memory, I'll dismiss that thought. On the SL2 EVF, small objects at a distance are soft...even with all the settings above off. I don't recall this issue on the SL. On the LCD they look great.

 

In high contrast settings on the EVF the blacks are too black (for an EVF), which makes it difficult to focus or judge exposure...otherwise the EVF is very nice.

Make sure you have "Pre-Focus" turned off...and avoid AFi mode...you should see a significant improvement.

[digitalfx]

Here is a good example of what I see. Find a situation similar to the attached image.

Make sure Pre-Focus is off and use AFs mode- Then focus on the small head shots on the paper. Are they tack sharp?

When I focus, AFs is locking on the image identified by the red arrow. But in the EVF this square is very soft, If I was manually focusing on this point I would have a tough time. Once I take the image the playback looks sharper (w/o zooming in)...hence the comments that the LCD is sharper than the EVF.

I almost wonder if the issue is in the Eyepiece. Its like Im one click away from bringing my diopter in. (But for me my diopter falls in the middle, so it has plenty of range).

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[thighslapper]

26 minutes ago, digitalfx said:

Here is a good example of what I see. Find a situation similar to the attached image.

Make sure Pre-Focus is off and use AFs mode- Then focus on the small head shots on the paper. Are they tack sharp?

When I focus, AFs is locking on the image identified by the red arrow. But in the EVF this square is very soft, If I was manually focusing on this point I would have a tough time. Once I take the image the playback looks sharper (w/o zooming in)...hence the comments that the LCD is sharper than the EVF.

I almost wonder if the issue is in the Eyepiece. Its like Im one click away from bringing my diopter in. (But for me my diopter falls in the middle, so it has plenty of range).

 

I have to agree that there is something 'not quite right' with the EVF behaviour ....... initially when I used the SL2 I felt that I hadn't got the dioptre adjustment right, but the rest of the display was spot on so it must be ok. Using the eye close to the eyepiece seems to accentuate the issue, and I spent ages comparing the S1R and SL2 EVF's, initially thinking there was a big difference .... although it varied between subjects ..... and then with time wondering if I was just imagining it all.

One thing I have discovered ...... eye position on the eyepiece is absolutely critical ...... there is a very localised position where things are pin sharp, and deviating from this point even by a few millimetres results in the image looking as if it's just not quite in focus. Bizarrely, for me, this is slightly off centre to the left ..... which does make me wonder whether there is misalignment of the lens elements in the EVF in percentage of these cameras ..... which would also explain some people complaining bitterly about it and others finding no issue at all.....

Maybe time to shoot off an email to Leica .....